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Tell HN: new and non-neg low karma users, your posts appear to be auto-killed

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Re: Tell HN: new and non-neg low karma users, your posts appear to be auto-killed

#11

Post by yorwba »

genezeta wrote: post #8
bookaway wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't find it hilarious . It's just an observation that all those are AI related. I never claimed that people "investigate" the links and kill them. But I do believe that if enough people get tired of a certain subject, they will flag such links without bothering to even click them. Then again, you did assume that this was done automatically. I think I can be allowed to assume that it's just other users flagging st…

If it's [dead] but not [flagged], it was killed automatically without users flagging it. Conversely, if it's [flagged] but not [dead], it was killed by users and then revived by other users vouching for it or through moderator action.

Re: Tell HN: new and non-neg low karma users, your posts appear to be auto-killed

#12

Post by gus_massa »

I think some get auto-dead but not all of them. Probably there is another filter like bad domains or keywords. As a sibling comment says, some users have send a lot of spam an are banned.

But there are false positives. If they are interesting, you can vouch them. If they are very interesting and vouching does not work you can send an email to dang hn@ycombinator.com . It's a manual process so use it only for special cases. (Remember to include a link to the post.)

Re: Tell HN: new and non-neg low karma users, your posts appear to be auto-killed

#14

Post by dang »

Posts by new and low-karma users are not automatically killed. Anyone can see that by looking at the /newest page.

If you have questions like this, you should be sending them to hn@ycombinator.com so we can actually see and answer them, not posting metathreads about it. (This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.) The only reason I found out about this thread is that a different user did email us.

It's all too easy to look at a limited set of datapoints and misinterpret what you're seeing. For example, some spam rings post legitimate (or legitimate-looking) submissions in order to cover for their spam. If you see a submission like that being auto-killed, you might well think "how can the moderators possibly be so heavy-handed" when in fact we're working hard to prevent spammers from taking over the site.

It's a constant struggle, like a cat-and-mouse game crossed with an arms race, and it's impossible to get the anti-abuse code perfect, so there will always be false positives. When you see those, you can help by vouching for them and/or by letting us know about them at hn@ycombinator.com so we can fix it. Many users do those things every day.

Re: Tell HN: new and non-neg low karma users, your posts appear to be auto-killed

#15

Post by dang »

bookaway wrote: post #5
genezeta wrote: post #4

Stuff marked [dead] on the first page of /newest right now: - A Chrome extension for tracking dramas. It appears to have been re-submitted, as the link was previously shared just yesterday (and it was dead, too), but this particular author has a lot of dead links which seems peculiar. - Questionnaire for a school project. I don't know what this is because it's a Google docs link and I'm not going to open it. But also…

Your impatience has betrayed you. Some examples from the next pages, that caused me to write this post: [dead] Show HN: Try QwQ-32B for Free: Advanced AI Reasoning Model (qwq-32b.net) [dead] Show HN: I made an AI platform that combines GPT-4o, Claude, DeepSeek and more (typethinkai.com) [dead] Some basic primitives for PHP OpenAI Client (github.com/assistantengine) [dead] Benchmark on Multi-Embodiment Intelligence No…

One was killed because the account was banned for being part of a spam ring.

One was killed because the account, while not banned, is breaking this guideline: "Please don't use HN primarily for promotion." (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

One was killed because the site is banned on HN (in this case, because it has been the source of too many low-quality posts and too much promotional behavior).

Two look like false positives by spam filters, though it's not so easy to be sure. I've unkilled those now:

Show HN: I made an AI platform that combines GPT-4o, Claude, DeepSeek and more - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43278331

Benchmark on Multi-Embodiment Intelligence Normative Data for Robot Manipulation - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43278119

Re: Tell HN: new and non-neg low karma users, your posts appear to be auto-killed

#16

Post by dang »

bookaway wrote: post #3
not_your_vase wrote: post #2

Well, to be fair, what are the chances that a user who has registered a few minutes ago without email with username "createvideoai" or "username998" (just took random spammers from the new page) will submit a non-spam link? It's arguably naive and simple heuristics, but I guess it's a reasonable baseline...

If you go to the "lists" page there is literally a "noobstories" page, because someone deemed that that would be an interesting filter for some people to explore. What's the point of posting if you're a noob if you know your legit post is going to be auto-killed and no-one is going to see it? Good-faith posters should know that this is what is happening (assuming the auto-killing is intentional and not a bug) so they…

Stories by new accounts are not all killed automatically. Your own posts make it clear that you know this.

Some such submissions get killed, mostly for reasons related to spam filters. But there's a huge difference between "some" and "all". I'd appreciate it if you'd stop making dramatic "all" claims about what is very much a "some" situation.

Obviously we have no intention of impeding legit users and legit submissions. Legit new users are what keep HN alive. Why would we cut off our own oxygen? The issue is that it's hard to write spam filters that don't produce any false positives. Perhaps you know how to do that; I don't.

If you want to help, vouching for the false positives (i.e. legit submissions that get killed by mistake) is helpful, as is emailing links to hn@ycombinator.com.

Re: Tell HN: new and non-neg low karma users, your posts appear to be auto-killed

#17

Post by dredmorbius »

genezeta wrote: post #4

Stuff marked [dead] on the first page of /newest right now: - A Chrome extension for tracking dramas. It appears to have been re-submitted, as the link was previously shared just yesterday (and it was dead, too), but this particular author has a lot of dead links which seems peculiar. - Questionnaire for a school project. I don't know what this is because it's a Google docs link and I'm not going to open it. But also…

NB: if you come across a profile whose submissions or comments are all "dead", they've likely been banned or shadowbanned.

You can use the "replies" endpoint to see if dang (or one of the other/earlier mods: sctb or pg) have replied directly to the user with a ban message, e.g.:

  https://news.ycombinator.com/replies?id=genezeta&by=dang
Or as a link: https://news.ycombinator.com/replies?id=genezeta&by=dang>

(This will show any replies by dang to you, genezeta, not necessarily ban notices.)

I've just tried that on the first non-green HN userID for a "[dead]" submission the New queue, with nothing showing, so it's a bit hit-or-miss.

Alternatively you can look at the member's submissions under their profile page. Patterns such as constantly submitting the same set of domains, especially if self-promotional, will stand out. That userID I'd checked above ... seems to have a limited range of sites they're interested in submitting:

https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=adib_zouiten1>

Some sites are banned due to impenetrable paywalls. 404 Media is one such (with several submission in the queue presently):

https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=404media.co>

Re: Tell HN: new and non-neg low karma users, your posts appear to be auto-killed

#18

Post by genezeta »

dredmorbius wrote: post #17
genezeta wrote: post #4

Stuff marked [dead] on the first page of /newest right now: - A Chrome extension for tracking dramas. It appears to have been re-submitted, as the link was previously shared just yesterday (and it was dead, too), but this particular author has a lot of dead links which seems peculiar. - Questionnaire for a school project. I don't know what this is because it's a Google docs link and I'm not going to open it. But also…

NB: if you come across a profile whose submissions or comments are all "dead", they've likely been banned or shadowbanned. You can use the "replies" endpoint to see if dang (or one of the other/earlier mods: sctb or pg) have replied directly to the user with a ban message, e.g.: https://news.ycombinator.com/replies?id=genezeta&by=dang Or as a link: https://news.ycombinator.com/replies?id=genezeta&by=dang > (This will…

Thanks.

Re: Tell HN: new and non-neg low karma users, your posts appear to be auto-killed

#19

Post by bookaway »

dang wrote: post #14

Posts by new and low-karma users are not automatically killed. Anyone can see that by looking at the /newest page. If you have questions like this, you should be sending them to hn@ycombinator.com so we can actually see and answer them, not posting metathreads about it. (This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html .) The only reason I found out about this thread is that a differen…

Thanks for the explanation dang.

>Posts by new and low-karma users are not automatically killed. Anyone can see that by looking at the /newest page.

>[let us] know about them at hn@ycombinator.com so we can fix it

You’re right to chastise me about the title. I had to remove all the qualifiers to meet the title character limit (also negative-> neg for that reason), so the title was more chicken little than I would have liked, but I did leave the qualifiers in the explanation, where I wasn’t claiming that all noobie posts were getting killed. My primary intention was to warn some of the good faith noobies who looked like they were getting caught up in the spam filter, and a post that noobies could see seemed to be a more appropriate venue for that. I didn't think my post would provide any extra utility to spammers. I apologize if the person that emailed you wasn’t a good-faith noobie poster concerned about their own posts.

But overall, because of the information asymmetry, I do think you underestimate the positive impact on the community of you coming out of the woodwork to provide explanations about specific instances once in awhile, as much as you loath to do so it seems.

e.g. TIL approx +50% of noobie posts are potential spam at a given time.

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