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Delta Chat – Email Based PGP Encrypted Chat

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Re: Delta Chat – Email Based PGP Encrypted Chat

#11

Post by miki123211 »

miroljub wrote: post #9
rahen wrote: post #6

On the positive side, the use of P2P and IMAP makes censorship difficult, which is a strong advantage in authoritarian regimes. However this comes with serious trade-offs. PGP lacks forward secrecy: if a key leaks, all past messages can be decrypted. Also IMAP offers no metadata privacy, anyone can see who you email and how often. Signal and WhatsApp are likely a step ahead in terms of privacy with their double ratch…

> Signal and WhatsApp are likely a step ahead in terms of privacy WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven. And remember that both WhatsApp and Signal are legally required not to disclose to you whether they are spying on you or not.

> WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven

E2E only requires a correctly-designed client, not a correctly-designed server.

Since any binary can always be deobfuscated, deliberately putting in a backdoor in the client would be an extremely risky PR move, especially in an app as big as WhatsApp, and one surely receiving lots of attention from security researchers.

Not to mention that OpenWhisperSystems (the creators of Signal) worked with Meta on their E2E implementation, and if you don't trust them to do right, you shouldn't trust anybody.

Let's face it, people over here just don't like Meta and love to spread FUD about them.

Re: Delta Chat – Email Based PGP Encrypted Chat

#12

Post by miroljub »

miki123211 wrote: post #11
miroljub wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Signal and WhatsApp are likely a step ahead in terms of privacy WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven. And remember that both WhatsApp and Signal are legally required not to disclose to you whether they are spying on you or not.

> WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven E2E only requires a correctly-designed client, not a correctly-designed server. Since any binary can always be deobfuscated, deliberately putting in a backdoor in the client would be an extremely risky PR move, especially in an app as big as WhatsApp, and one surely receiving lots of attention from security researchers. Not to mention that OpenWhi…

One trust is lost, it's hard to regain it. The fact is, the WhatsApp client is not open source, there are no reproducible builds, and only thing you have is trust in them.

If you live in an authoritarian state with a track record of spying on individual citizens, and without legal protection for the privacy of foreign citizens, it's legitimate to decide not to trust a company like Meta headquartered in the USA.

Re: Delta Chat – Email Based PGP Encrypted Chat

#14

Post by pedrogpimenta »

miroljub wrote: post #13

I tried to use it, liked the concept, but the way it handles email is a mess, making it unusable for my use case of trying to use it as an alternative mail client for my normal mail account.

"I used a hammer to make orange juice and it made a mess! Unusable!"

Re: Delta Chat – Email Based PGP Encrypted Chat

#15

Post by bluebarbet »

Several years ago I tried DeltaChat and it caused an insurmountable problem: my mail provider kept locking me out of my account. Almost certainly it was because DeltaChat's suspiciously ciphertext-filled messages were triggering the abuse lockdown.

The provider was GMX and it was their fault, not DeltaChat's. But I had to call off the experiment.

Re: Delta Chat – Email Based PGP Encrypted Chat

#17

Post by mab122 »

sras-me wrote: post #16

In a sensible world, we would be using this, instead of whatsapp. It is amazing that even really a vast majority of, even technical people, not once stopped and looked at whatsapp, and said "Wait, e-mail can do this, we just need a pretty UI".

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224

Re: Delta Chat – Email Based PGP Encrypted Chat

#19

Post by bossyTeacher »

miki123211 wrote: post #11
miroljub wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Signal and WhatsApp are likely a step ahead in terms of privacy WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven. And remember that both WhatsApp and Signal are legally required not to disclose to you whether they are spying on you or not.

> WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven E2E only requires a correctly-designed client, not a correctly-designed server. Since any binary can always be deobfuscated, deliberately putting in a backdoor in the client would be an extremely risky PR move, especially in an app as big as WhatsApp, and one surely receiving lots of attention from security researchers. Not to mention that OpenWhi…

I love this optimism, I really do. But to believe that any meta product can be private is to believe that Zuck actually wants that to happen. Zuck, the guy who changes company culture every 4 years or less to suit whoever is on the white house. The reality is that with a closed source product, you can't trust ANYTHING. Just because OpenWhisperSystems worked with Meta doesn't mean anything. Meta will easily silence them legally if they wanted to. And Meta can always remove or disable the implementation as they see fit.

Re: Delta Chat – Email Based PGP Encrypted Chat

#20

Post by hobo_mark »

philips wrote: post #3

My first question on this sort of thing was how well does it work with GMail. And they have an FAQ entry on it: https://providers.delta.chat/gmail

Would love to know if someone actually runs it reliably. Especially with a Workspace email address.
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