Aren't higher energy prices exactly what we need to combat climate change though?
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How the U.K. broke its own economy
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Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy
#12Everyone who bought into neoliberalism in the 80s is now experiencing economies that are mysteriously failing to thrive. Correlation isn't cause, except when it is.
Turns out Thatcherism only works as long as the state still has assets to sell off. The delusion that assets would stay in the hands of the working and middle class, and not end up with the wealthy inheriting class, has to be one of the biggest political failures of our government on the modern era. It's lead to the possible death of the Conservative Party if they fail to fight off Reform and the Liberal Democrats.
Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what was the alternative? Continue with the disaster of central planning. Which is the actual thing that destroyed British industry.
Go back to what the western world was doing in the 50’s. High tax and high public spending. In 1950 the US had a top marginal tax rate of 91%. The 50s were great, let’s do that again. https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/04/26/taxing...
Federal receipts as a % of GDP has gone up and down by a few % but is basically unchanged from the 1950’s:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=ockN
Meanwhile the income tax burden, specifically, has gotten considerably more progressive:
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxe...
Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what was the alternative? Continue with the disaster of central planning. Which is the actual thing that destroyed British industry.
Go back to what the western world was doing in the 50’s. High tax and high public spending. In 1950 the US had a top marginal tax rate of 91%. The 50s were great, let’s do that again. https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/04/26/taxing...
And then what happened to those nationalised industries?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7PVEaPh6Fw&pp=ygUUYWRhbSBzbWl...
Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy
#15Aren't higher energy prices exactly what we need to combat climate change though?
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Because climate change will somehow not effect the poor?
1) we need hire energy prices to match the externalities
2) we need subsidies to make the poor more efficient at using the power they can afford. I heard in England they don't have proper insulation in most homes. Building to passive house standards can completely transform an energy bill.
Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy
#16Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Because climate change will somehow not effect the poor? 1) we need hire energy prices to match the externalities 2) we need subsidies to make the poor more efficient at using the power they can afford. I heard in England they don't have proper insulation in most homes. Building to passive house standards can completely transform an energy bill.
If the IPCC global climate change projections are accurate then poor UK residents will probably experience smaller effects than poor people in many other countries. So they may see it as less of a concern than short-term energy costs.
https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar4/wg1/global-climate-projection...
Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy
#18Aren't higher energy prices exactly what we need to combat climate change though?
Only high oil and gas prices specifically. And honestly, low gas prices is good if it helps move away from coal. But unfortunately, even the most liberal political groups have walked back any interest in solving climate change at the margin. You see this with the endless life of the "100 companies cause climate change" misinformation.
That 100 companies canard is really terrible. It's seeking a villain to blame instead of addressing the system problems and it's second or third order effects such as climate change. I understand it probably motivates some folks but I can't help but roll my eyes.
Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy
#19Aren't higher energy prices exactly what we need to combat climate change though?
Energy costs should probably be progressive. If you need more than the poor your cost starts shooting through the roof.
This reminds me of that popular "reality" show where they remodel a family's home and surprise them with what is basically a palace. Afterward the families are shattered by energy costs, and eventually exorbitant property taxes. Off camera they are forced into forclosure and end up in debt.
After the first month or so they are forced to seal off most of the house as they desperately try to stay afloat. Lacking financial savvy, most end up mortgaging the home.
Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy
#20Aren't higher energy prices exactly what we need to combat climate change though?
Not really. We need polluting energy sources to be charged for their pollution, ie stop using the atmosphere and land as a free sewer, which in turn will put renewables on an equal footing. Though even without that, solar, wind, and batteries are already cheaper.
Isn't that the same? You want to raise the price of energy to make wind etc competitive?