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Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

bocoup.com

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Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#11

Post by kbxogdgkdhop »

bombcar wrote: post #5
tonymet wrote: post #3

What are some success stories of coops? I’m thinking United , REI , Winco. I’m curious why aren’t there more and why they generally have mediocre success if not failure

Coops are basically geared toward mediocre success - because there's really no pressure to risk aiming for amazing/startup-style success. Ownership structure doesn't change many of the business risks, but coops can avoid the "expand or die" that sometimes normal companies experience. The largest coops are mutuals (think: insurance) and banks (think: credit union). Others exist in farmer's coops (Land o' Lakes, Dairy…

the phrase you're looking for to describe "mediocre success" is "sustainable business".

expand or die is a bullshit concept employed by those more concerned with a quick buck than creating something lasting

Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#12

Post by bombcar »

kbxogdgkdhop wrote: post #11
bombcar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coops are basically geared toward mediocre success - because there's really no pressure to risk aiming for amazing/startup-style success. Ownership structure doesn't change many of the business risks, but coops can avoid the "expand or die" that sometimes normal companies experience. The largest coops are mutuals (think: insurance) and banks (think: credit union). Others exist in farmer's coops (Land o' Lakes, Dairy…

the phrase you're looking for to describe "mediocre success" is "sustainable business". expand or die is a bullshit concept employed by those more concerned with a quick buck than creating something lasting

Exactly - it's like the startup vs "lifestyle business" (we have to keep making terms for what just used to be "business") discussion.

The sad part is when something on the startup track fails as a startup but is a perfectly workable "lifestyle" business; but it can't switch tracks and instead plows along until destroyed.

Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#13

Post by vvpan »

happyopossum wrote: post #10

Announce your company is worker-owned in a blog posted by a guy whose profile pic shows him in a banana suit. Not the best way to build confidence in the new ownership...

I disagree. Stern corporate demeanor is a disadvantageous to a group that is trying to show personality.

Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#14

Post by ForTheKidz »

bombcar wrote: post #5
tonymet wrote: post #3

What are some success stories of coops? I’m thinking United , REI , Winco. I’m curious why aren’t there more and why they generally have mediocre success if not failure

Coops are basically geared toward mediocre success - because there's really no pressure to risk aiming for amazing/startup-style success. Ownership structure doesn't change many of the business risks, but coops can avoid the "expand or die" that sometimes normal companies experience. The largest coops are mutuals (think: insurance) and banks (think: credit union). Others exist in farmer's coops (Land o' Lakes, Dairy…

> Coops are basically geared toward mediocre success - because there's really no pressure to risk aiming for amazing/startup-style success.

I'm just straight-up offended at this. Co-ops are the job most people want. What you refer to as "amazing success" is dismantling our society and the people who run them appear to struggle to empathize with other humans.

Granted, i'm sure coops can be equally antisocial and misanthropic. But growth surely isn't what we want to be optimizing for.

Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#15

Post by vvpan »

jawns wrote: post #9
tonymet wrote: post #3

What are some success stories of coops? I’m thinking United , REI , Winco. I’m curious why aren’t there more and why they generally have mediocre success if not failure

US economic policy is not very favorable to co-ops. Cooperatives face complex tax structures that can be less advantageous compared to traditional corporations. Unlike C-corporations, which have clear tax advantages and deductions, cooperatives must navigate unique tax rules, such as Subchapter T of the IRS code, which governs patronage refunds. The tax code heavily favors investor-owned firms through incentives such…

I have been extremely excited about cooperatives and doing research but good info is scattered (suggestions welcome!). From what I learned I will echo what you said - laws are stacked against cooperatives. In general the corporation, a structure that is centuries old, gets preferential treatment in all situations. It is like human development has been abolished in that domain in the 1800s and that is the status quo.

Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#16

Post by ecolonsmak »

anyone curious how employee ownership can work for large tech enterprises, a good starting point can be the material made available through the Beyster Institute - https://rady.ucsd.edu/why/centers/beyster/index.html

The founder built an $8 Billion dollar employee owned company, SAIC - and then allowed it to be carved up once he left having failed to ensure the culture of employee ownership was rooted as firmly with the board of directors as it was with the rank and file employees. I worked there for 12 years and saw firsthand the slide away from the ownership model, and it was instructive for me in my early career years.

Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#17

Post by karaterobot »

jawns wrote: post #9
tonymet wrote: post #3

What are some success stories of coops? I’m thinking United , REI , Winco. I’m curious why aren’t there more and why they generally have mediocre success if not failure

US economic policy is not very favorable to co-ops. Cooperatives face complex tax structures that can be less advantageous compared to traditional corporations. Unlike C-corporations, which have clear tax advantages and deductions, cooperatives must navigate unique tax rules, such as Subchapter T of the IRS code, which governs patronage refunds. The tax code heavily favors investor-owned firms through incentives such…

I've been a part of several coops that fizzled out, and in none of these cases was tax law the culprit. Taxes and regulations suck, but I think there are deeper causes for the rarity of success in ventures like this, which are so appealing, and so often attempted. I don't know what they are, but I'd bet that some of the major causes are psychological and logistical in nature!

Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#18

Post by text0404 »

Tr3nton wrote: post #7

Browsing the barebones site and reading the Code of Conduct, I get the sense that political activism is a higher priority than engineering. There's a dedicated BLM page, where they honor George Floyd, but not the woman who was pistol-whipped by Floyd and his crew during an armed robbery, while the woman was home alone with her children.[1] I am aware that this is wrongthink. Americans rejected this worldview in the r…

hi, American here. i didn't reject this worldview - a portion of eligible voters rejected it.

maybe their principles are more important to them than "current climate" and a profit motive? if you don't care for it, don't hire them - i'm sure they wouldn't want to work with you anyway as your values seem completely incompatible.

Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#19

Post by tonymet »

ForTheKidz wrote: post #14
bombcar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coops are basically geared toward mediocre success - because there's really no pressure to risk aiming for amazing/startup-style success. Ownership structure doesn't change many of the business risks, but coops can avoid the "expand or die" that sometimes normal companies experience. The largest coops are mutuals (think: insurance) and banks (think: credit union). Others exist in farmer's coops (Land o' Lakes, Dairy…

> Coops are basically geared toward mediocre success - because there's really no pressure to risk aiming for amazing/startup-style success. I'm just straight-up offended at this. Co-ops are the job most people want. What you refer to as "amazing success" is dismantling our society and the people who run them appear to struggle to empathize with other humans. Granted, i'm sure coops can be equally antisocial and misan…

are there any examples?

Re: Bocoup Is Now Worker-Owned

#20

Post by tonymet »

andbberger wrote: post #8
tonymet wrote: post #3

What are some success stories of coops? I’m thinking United , REI , Winco. I’m curious why aren’t there more and why they generally have mediocre success if not failure

REI is not a worker coop they just cosplay as one.

can you explain more to an outsider? i've been a lifelong member and they were very active in their COOP image in all the member comms
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