Not detracting from this post, but has anyone else noticed there's a front page post about Quaternions or Kalman filters on about a monthly cadence? Wonder why that is?
Rediscovering Quaternions
11–20 of 72 posts
Re: Rediscovering Quaternions
#12This is a bit pedantic - and the blog post actually does clarify this - but the problem isn't that a 3D representation of representations has "discontinuities" as such, it's that it's not orientable in Euclidean 3D space. It is similar to the Klein bottle - the mathematical description is continuous, but any Klein bottle made of real-world glass has to intersect itself. Or likewise that a Mobius strip can be demonstrated in 3D but can't be built in Flatland without a 3D entity doing the copy-pasting. Reality just has the wrong topology to represent the full group of rotations. Hence the discussion about projective space later in the blog post.
So adding a fourth gimbal is really tantamount to a correctly-oriented embedding of 3D rotations onto a 4-torus (that is, [0,2pi]^4).
Gimbal lock also relates to another issue of continuity, related to the "plate dance."[1] Rotations themselves have a sense of continuity (infinitesimal differences in either the angle or axis of rotation, aka they are Lie groups), but Euler angles fail to respect the equivalent fundamental theorem of calculus: adding a bunch of infinitesimal changes might say you are at the identity rotation according to Euler angles, but in reality you have flipped the meaning of the right-hand rule and the overall state of the system is not at the identity. In a robotics context, the robot's hand might have done a complete rotation, but its arm is twisted without the robot "knowing." I believe robotic arms used to have a serious problem with this, either overrotating and breaking the arm, or swinging dangerously fast in the opposite direction. Using quaternions / a fourth gimbal / etc. there would be a measurable phase or pole indicating the true state of the system, and letting the robot know how to rotate its arm without malfunctioning. So, like the Apollo mission, the need for a fourth dimension to keep track of that stuff - and even the quaternion multiplication structure - comes about pretty naturally without ever thinking about abstract math.
Re: Rediscovering Quaternions
#13Not detracting from this post, but has anyone else noticed there's a front page post about Quaternions or Kalman filters on about a monthly cadence? Wonder why that is?
Re: Rediscovering Quaternions
#14Not detracting from this post, but has anyone else noticed there's a front page post about Quaternions or Kalman filters on about a monthly cadence? Wonder why that is?
Re: Rediscovering Quaternions
#15Not detracting from this post, but has anyone else noticed there's a front page post about Quaternions or Kalman filters on about a monthly cadence? Wonder why that is?
Visualizing quaternions (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38043644 - Oct 2023 (42 comments)
Visualizing quaternions: an explorable video series (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31083042 - April 2022 (15 comments)
Visualizing quaternions: An explorable video series - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18310788 - Oct 2018 (32 comments)
Re: Rediscovering Quaternions
#16Not detracting from this post, but has anyone else noticed there's a front page post about Quaternions or Kalman filters on about a monthly cadence? Wonder why that is?
Edit: just noticed we also have a thread on bifurcation, another big topic in Against the Day.
Re: Rediscovering Quaternions
#17Not detracting from this post, but has anyone else noticed there's a front page post about Quaternions or Kalman filters on about a monthly cadence? Wonder why that is?
Re: Rediscovering Quaternions
#18If I had to describe Quaternions to someone I would first try to explain a Plane (Ax + By + Cz + D = 0) to them. ABC being a (normal) direction that the Plane is pointed towards and D being the distance from the origin. A Quaternion from what I believe is just the same but instead of distance it just encodes the rotation around that direction as a fixed axis. (Instead the angle stored is half etc). Feel free to corre…
If you a explaining this to the average American, you are going to have to start a bit further back than a "Plane".
Re: Rediscovering Quaternions
#19Not detracting from this post, but has anyone else noticed there's a front page post about Quaternions or Kalman filters on about a monthly cadence? Wonder why that is?
Re: Rediscovering Quaternions
#20Not detracting from this post, but has anyone else noticed there's a front page post about Quaternions or Kalman filters on about a monthly cadence? Wonder why that is?
It's because the quaternion is part of the state of the Kalman filter.