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From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

cogitations.co

11–20 of 97 posts

Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#11
post #5

>Gorbachev’s reforms began with the aim of resuscitating the Soviet economy. But instead they brought ruin, destroying the Soviet economy along with Soviet state capacity. This did not occur because Gorbachev was “helpless” and trapped by entrenched interests, but rather because he proved to be a well-intentioned reformer with great power that was used in a reckless manner.

The collapse of the Soviet Union as it was was inevitable. Gorbachev recognized it and tried to do something about it. Given the gargantuan challenge, Gorbachev's odds of success were not great to begin with. At least he was wise enough to shepherd its demise peacefully. In any case, the world without the Soviet Union is undoubtedly a better place.

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Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The collapse of the Soviet Union as it was was inevitable. Gorbachev recognized it and tried to do something about it. Given the gargantuan challenge, Gorbachev's odds of success were not great to begin with. At least he was wise enough to shepherd its demise peacefully. In any case, the world without the Soviet Union is undoubtedly a better place.

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It's really easy when you can talk to living people today who experienced the ussr in the 80s and compare to the average Western experience at the same time.

Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#13
Living through the end years of USSR and beginnings of centrifugal coming apart of everything was pretty crazy. As a child seeing necrologies for Brezhnev, then Andropov, then Chernenko on TV with somber music and black ribbons, I remember thinking - woah, why are they dying. Gorbachev was a breath of fresh air, and he did as soft of a landing for that disastrous country as anyone could have wished for. The aftermath was still a disaster, especially considering what is happening now. The worst kinds of people came to power, the grabbiest, least compassionate, just general scum. They completely destroyed what Russia could have been, stole everything they could and set the country back on the terrible cycle of poverty, war and bloodshed.

Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#14
The Soviet Union began to collapse the moment it abandoned Lenin’s NEP. If they had reintroduced it in the 1960s, after recovering from World War II, they could have quickly caught up with the West—perhaps even surpassed it. In many ways, China is the successful version of the USSR.

Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#15

To summarize: the post is phrased in terms of an existing controversy about whether Gorbachev was "powerless" in the face of the bureaucracy (and how much he feared a coup), but concludes he wasn't. Instead, the author thinks Gorbachev was quite powerful, but focused on the wrong things, specifically on political reform instead of economic reform. Critical economic reforms like price reform was abandoned, and at the…

Can't recommend 'Collapse: The Fall of the Soviet Union' by Vladislav M Zubok enough. An absolute page-turner that makes this super clear.

Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#16

Chernobyl contributed to the collapse. It caused people to panic and it exposed the weaknesses of the system and created a breach of the Iron Curtain. It completely ruined any hope glasnost had to succeed.

In pop history the influence of Chernobyl is wildly exaggerated.

In the complex set of events that lead to the collapse, Chernobyl is only a footnote.

Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#17
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The collapse of the Soviet Union as it was was inevitable. Gorbachev recognized it and tried to do something about it. Given the gargantuan challenge, Gorbachev's odds of success were not great to begin with. At least he was wise enough to shepherd its demise peacefully. In any case, the world without the Soviet Union is undoubtedly a better place.

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I'm from Romania, and IMO the comparisons with the US make no sense, as the actual comparison should be what happened to the countries in the Warsaw Pact before and after USSR's collapse.

Well, those that entered the EU are now far better off by all the metrics that count, and you can take your pick from GDP, income or life expectancy. This didn't happen for all the countries under USSR, depending on whether they stayed within Russia's influence. Obviously, when you have Russia invading a country or threatening to invade, that country won't do well. But even in countries left out of the EU, such as the Republic of Moldova, you can see progress and a strong opposition to regional Russian influence. And Russia does what Russia always did. But it's pretty telling that Eastern European countries like Poland or Romania now have a higher GDP per capita than Russia, lower poverty and higher quality of life included.

In defense of the US, I will say that the Marshall Plan has rebuilt Western Europe after WW2, while USSR's response, the Molotov Plan, was designed for extracting resources. And that Pax Americana did the West, at least, a lot of good is an understatement. ALAS, it appears that world is ending, helped in no small part by the changing views of western citizens, “informed” by the Internet, and guess what will happen next.

Anyway, it's baffling to me to see such a changing tide in opinions on HN, now that the US administration has changed. I mean, I've seen stupid opinions denying reality on HN before, but now it's on a whole new level. I get it, we had cancel culture and all that, but such opinions don't change overnight, so I'm amazed at how many uneducated cowards the world has, even on HN.

Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#18

Chernobyl contributed to the collapse. It caused people to panic and it exposed the weaknesses of the system and created a breach of the Iron Curtain. It completely ruined any hope glasnost had to succeed.

In pop history the influence of Chernobyl is wildly exaggerated. In the complex set of events that lead to the collapse, Chernobyl is only a footnote.

Fear of Chernobyl catastrophe was the major reason to demand free speech. Free speech made it clear that USSR is far behind western countries, it opposes. Which created demand to catchup with West or/and to dismantle inefficient soviet regime (AKA «Go West»[1] or «Light from the West»).

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBjMRvOB5M

Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#19

Living through the end years of USSR and beginnings of centrifugal coming apart of everything was pretty crazy. As a child seeing necrologies for Brezhnev, then Andropov, then Chernenko on TV with somber music and black ribbons, I remember thinking - woah, why are they dying. Gorbachev was a breath of fresh air, and he did as soft of a landing for that disastrous country as anyone could have wished for. The aftermath…

That seems a pretty standard aftermath to any revolution, with few exceptions. No matter how well intentioned the revolutionaries are, it is the most ruthless who end up seizing power.

Re: From Reform to Ruin in the USSR

#20
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The collapse of the Soviet Union as it was was inevitable. Gorbachev recognized it and tried to do something about it. Given the gargantuan challenge, Gorbachev's odds of success were not great to begin with. At least he was wise enough to shepherd its demise peacefully. In any case, the world without the Soviet Union is undoubtedly a better place.

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You're seriously bringing on Afghanistan as an example here? Because the Soviet Union has completely clean hands here...?

And no, the United States is not perfect. No country with that amount of power is. But for all its flaws, it's vastly better than the Soviet Union ever was, but for the people living there and internationally.

This is the old "the United States is horrible and has done terrible thing, so let's for a country that ... has done even worse and is completely unrepentant about it". Like, wut?

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