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Navigating a Broken Dev Culture

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Navigating a Broken Dev Culture

#11

Post by the__alchemist »

jonfw wrote: post #2

One thing I didn’t notice- what impact to the bottom line does kubernetes or docker bring? I love shiny tools and containers as much as anybody, but “this thing is shiny and new age” isn’t a great pitch. Your team needs to have problems that kubernetes can solve. If you don’t spend that much time on deployments, if outages don’t cost you much money- it is probably not worth it. When I hear 200/k a year as revenue gen…

I had the same reaction. I would look more favorably on a company that doesn't use Docker or Kubernetes. These tools, by default make things complicated and slower, so there needs to be a positive benefit for their use case that balances this.

It makes me wonder whether OP's desired for testing and CI is for a specific reason, (e.g. targeted test on certain algorithms, CI/CD to replace manual QC steps etc), or if it's for less-practical reasons.

Re: Navigating a Broken Dev Culture

#17

Post by dpc_01234 »

I think you confuse "good" with "trendy", as the list of things you want is a bit of a mixed bag.

Testing is almost unquestionably a benefit (at least to a point) and is something that can be introduced with minimum initial investments and right away gives big benefits. I'd start with that for low effort, big impact.

Then CI (but not CD) is like that too. Just have the test executed on every commit/PR to gain some confidence.

CD requires a whole culture around it, and not everything fits into this culture.

There's really nothing wrong with deploying stuff via SSH. It's not most fashionable, but if done via script and works, it's OK. No need to fight it.

Docker can be great, but people often shove it where it is not needed. E.g. if I was deploying Java (standardized VM) or Go (static bin), I might not bother. It really was invented for Python, where it is impossible to get the Python app running on anything but the developer's computer.

k8s ... mixed bag. Hefty price in complexity, for some benefits that are sometimes important, sometimes not.

Re: Navigating a Broken Dev Culture

#18

Post by scinse »

> I know going full-time into FOSS isn’t easy

What matters is whether it’s important. I spent a lot of time over the years doing FOSS and learned all that code just like all other code atrophies and dies. Maybe it helps you get a job (mine did), and maybe it drives part of the world. But, eventually, it’s probably not important. Don’t worry about FOSS as criteria for a job doing something that is transient.

If you’re so motivated though, be Richard Stallman!

Re: Navigating a Broken Dev Culture

#19

Post by sepositus »

the__alchemist wrote: post #11
jonfw wrote: post #2

One thing I didn’t notice- what impact to the bottom line does kubernetes or docker bring? I love shiny tools and containers as much as anybody, but “this thing is shiny and new age” isn’t a great pitch. Your team needs to have problems that kubernetes can solve. If you don’t spend that much time on deployments, if outages don’t cost you much money- it is probably not worth it. When I hear 200/k a year as revenue gen…

I had the same reaction. I would look more favorably on a company that doesn't use Docker or Kubernetes. These tools, by default make things complicated and slower, so there needs to be a positive benefit for their use case that balances this. It makes me wonder whether OP's desired for testing and CI is for a specific reason, (e.g. targeted test on certain algorithms, CI/CD to replace manual QC steps etc), or if it'…

> These tools, by default make things complicated and slower, so there needs to be a positive benefit for their use case that balances this.

I'm confused by this reasoning. How does Docker make things slower by default? Why would you look favorably on a company that doesn't use it?

  make
  scp mybin machine@foo.com/deploy
  ssh machine@foo.com -c 'systemctl restart myservice'
Or

  docker build
  docker push myimage@latest
  ssh machine@foo.com -c 'docker-compose up'
At least with the second one, you have automatic artifact tracking for easier rollbacks.

Re: Navigating a Broken Dev Culture

#20

Post by the__alchemist »

sepositus wrote: post #19
the__alchemist wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same reaction. I would look more favorably on a company that doesn't use Docker or Kubernetes. These tools, by default make things complicated and slower, so there needs to be a positive benefit for their use case that balances this. It makes me wonder whether OP's desired for testing and CI is for a specific reason, (e.g. targeted test on certain algorithms, CI/CD to replace manual QC steps etc), or if it'…

> These tools, by default make things complicated and slower, so there needs to be a positive benefit for their use case that balances this. I'm confused by this reasoning. How does Docker make things slower by default? Why would you look favorably on a company that doesn't use it? make scp mybin machine@foo.com/deploy ssh machine@foo.com -c 'systemctl restart myservice' Or docker build docker push myimage@latest ssh…

I would rather run software directly than wrap it in something, (and in this case, the wrapper isn't thin!) unless there are complex system dependencies. And that may be a smell of its own. Depends on the application.
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