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Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

privacyguides.org

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Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#11

Post by jacobgkau »

claudiojulio wrote: post #2

I don't trust Privacy Guides. They must have some kind of deal with Brave. They didn't accept Brave and then out of nowhere they start accepting it with the excuse of having a Chromium-based browser.

They specifically state on their page for the Brave listing (and all the other ones) that they aren't affiliated with any of the projects they recommend. They also list the criteria they have for listing a project. If you think something shady's going on, perhaps you could point out which of their publicly available criteria Brave doesn't meet?

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#12

Post by VerdisQuo5678 »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #7
claudiojulio wrote: post #2

I don't trust Privacy Guides. They must have some kind of deal with Brave. They didn't accept Brave and then out of nowhere they start accepting it with the excuse of having a Chromium-based browser.

In their defense, I think it is good to have a more private chromium browser if we’re talking about the subject of accessibility for new folks. Much easier to get them off chrome proper.

I dont understand the needed distinction between "chromium" and "non-chromium" browsers, thyre just web engines and ultimately technical details. Although chromium having significantly more compatibility (or chrome features that websites use) the average consumer will be using websites that keep strict accordance with webstandards to support safari. For technical users its another story but for the average user the web engine of your browser doesnt matter, just the shell around it, so I find it quite silly the notion we need X browser and also an X chromium browser

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#13

Post by protocolture »

Privacy is dead. But its all the more worthwhile to resurrect it.

When someone might benefit from marginal privacy, its best to ask who they want to be private from. Sometimes the juice is worth the squeeze (Privacy from ISP, Spouse etc) sometimes it isn't (State actors, large corps) depending on how much effort they want to put in.

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#15

Post by Forgeties79 »

VerdisQuo5678 wrote: post #12
Forgeties79 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their defense, I think it is good to have a more private chromium browser if we’re talking about the subject of accessibility for new folks. Much easier to get them off chrome proper.

I dont understand the needed distinction between "chromium" and "non-chromium" browsers, thyre just web engines and ultimately technical details. Although chromium having significantly more compatibility (or chrome features that websites use) the average consumer will be using websites that keep strict accordance with webstandards to support safari. For technical users its another story but for the average user the w…

Some people think it’s important to support more browser diversity by not using chromium-based browsers. Some people also think that it’s bad to use pretty much anything produced by Google. Plenty of reasons to want non-chromium browsers

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#16

Post by sgp_ »

claudiojulio wrote: post #2

I don't trust Privacy Guides. They must have some kind of deal with Brave. They didn't accept Brave and then out of nowhere they start accepting it with the excuse of having a Chromium-based browser.

Hey, I'm Justin from the 501(c)(3) fiscal host of Privacy Guides, MAGIC Grants. Us board members administer the funds for Privacy Guides, and we are different people than those who are on the Privacy Guides committee.

I assure you that Privacy Guides has not made a deal with Brave or any other of the tools that it recommends on the website. I'm happy to address any other questions about raising funds if you have them.

There are lengthy discussions about whether to recommend a tool or not on the Privacy Guides GitHub and their forum. There is a lot of great context there.

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#17

Post by jonaharagon »

claudiojulio wrote: post #2

I don't trust Privacy Guides. They must have some kind of deal with Brave. They didn't accept Brave and then out of nowhere they start accepting it with the excuse of having a Chromium-based browser.

We don't have a deal with Brave. It was added almost 3 years ago, and nobody has even proposed removing it in the time since. Furthermore, it would be insane and likely illegal for a public charity to strike a deal to serve an undisclosed advertisement for a product from a private company.

I think our position on Brave is clear enough from the very first paragraph in the guide:

> We recommend Mullvad Browser if you are focused on strong privacy protections and anti-fingerprinting out of the box, Firefox for casual internet browsers looking for a good alternative to Google Chrome, and Brave if you need Chromium browser compatibility.

edit: ninja'd by justin lol

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#18

Post by 0xCMP »

It's also important to remember how easy it feels to setup and use when it's all done and working.

When you're starting out you're learning everything and trying to adjust your current usage with the limits of the private alternatives. And then we live in a society there is the learning curve for those who want to interact with you and are somehow willing to cooperate and use a more secure/private thing than the tool/service they're used to.

Let people get better and encourage them to keep going is definitely the right advice. The tone, intent, and timing of telling people how to keep going further is as important as the advice or recommendations you're giving them.

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#19

Post by quickslowdown »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #15
VerdisQuo5678 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont understand the needed distinction between "chromium" and "non-chromium" browsers, thyre just web engines and ultimately technical details. Although chromium having significantly more compatibility (or chrome features that websites use) the average consumer will be using websites that keep strict accordance with webstandards to support safari. For technical users its another story but for the average user the w…

Some people think it’s important to support more browser diversity by not using chromium-based browsers. Some people also think that it’s bad to use pretty much anything produced by Google. Plenty of reasons to want non-chromium browsers

For me personally, it comes down to diversity. If all other browser engines "go under" and we are only left with Chromium, websites can only be built for 1 browser. Although Chromium is a great engine (evidenced by how many browsers are built on top of it and how widely the underlying Chromium engine has been embraced), it's not without quirks, bugs, flaws, and vulnerabilities.

Firefox is built from the ground up in a different way from Chromium, with its own set of bugs, quirks, flaws, and vulnerabilities. There may be some overlap, but having entirely different architectures means we keep pushing the compatibility envelope, we get "copycat" features, where one engine does something great and the other implements it in a way that works with their own engine, etc.

It's just better to have more than 1 browser engine around. I wish it wasn't so difficult to start a new engine from scratch today, the sheer amount of features a web browser must have to get people to even consider reading your About page, and the overwhelming complexity of modern webstacks, mean you basically have to be grandfathered in as a browser that's been around for decades and has a huge amount of community support.

I am aware of alternative browsers, Arc and the like. I'm very happy to see someone seriously go after an entirely new browser engine that's not Gecko or Chromium, and the traction they're gaining while not being "fully featured" sort of sums up the sentiment of my message (I hope). Having alternatives is good.

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#20

Post by Gigachad »

dylan604 wrote: post #4
1970-01-01 wrote: post #3

>The point here is to reduce harm and improve privacy by small increments at a pace that is realistically sustainable for an average person. Here's the rub. I buy that privacy is not dead, however free privacy is very limiting. Total privacy remains a complicated pay to play game.

Classic example with theZuck claiming privacy is dead, yet goes off and buys the houses around him so he can have privacy while creating one of the largest privacy invading morally bankrupt companies.

Though everything he says gets leaked to the media so the public got a little bit back at him.
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