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The reason behind the TikTok ban

kenklippenstein.com

11–20 of 31 posts

Re: The reason behind the TikTok ban

#11
post #3

If this post gets flagged I will lose all trust in this forum and its admins. This is not the first instance a post like this gets flagged. This post perfectly relates to the themes of the forum. This is completely and utterly unacceptable. Edit: I'm at least thankfull the admins have restored the post.

Lots of users flag things because it’s a guaranteed flame war, I almost flagged it after reading because it’s kind of one persons opinion with a few references to politicians’ statements and it asserts that this is the whole story when it’s not, ie, just someone’s crappy substack without any substantial new info. But I’ll refrain hoping that there’s some discussion on the merits of banning Tik-Tok, but really anythin…

[dead]

Re: The reason behind the TikTok ban

#12

Government contractors have been banned from having Tik-Tok installed on any device they use since June 2023, legislation to force divestment was introduced in January prior, so I was tempted to dismiss this article front the first sentence, of course it did not start with oct 7, but fine, the matter became more urgent with the swell of content that’s, let’s say, critical of Israel. But the article is reaching by ass…

> the article is reaching by asserting that pro Israeli lobbyists have outsized sway

Given that 38 US states have laws against boycotting Israel, Texas required hurricane aid recipients to promise not to boycott Israel as a condition of receiving aid, and Texas will fire teachers for not pledging not to boycott Israel, I wouldn't say it's reaching at all.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#Anti-BDS_laws_in...

[2] Did a City in Texas Require Harvey Aid Recipients to Promise Not to Boycott Israel? [yes] - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/texas-harvey-israel/

[3] Teacher Sues Texas After Being Fired For Refusing to Sign Pro-Israel Contract - https://www.newsweek.com/teacher-fired-refusing-sign-pro-isr...

Re: The reason behind the TikTok ban

#13
> It all started with Hamas’ October 7, 2023 attack on Israel...

It's not. It started by Trump around 2020 trying to challenge China trade and being considered a propaganda asset.

Democrats later used the argument for their own benefit.

Re: The reason behind the TikTok ban

#15
What’s crazy to me is that Washington is still naive about the China threat, only when Israel came into play did the bill have legs again. I’ll say it again, you can’t let your near peer adversary own a mainline into the eyeballs of your population. The US knows this, because just decades ago, they were mainlining anti-communist and pro-Contras content through radios in Latin America

Re: The reason behind the TikTok ban

#16
post #6

One has to wonder why the only major non-Western social media outlet turns out to not suppress anti-Israeli sentiment. Of course it could be possible that TikTok could have placed a bias in the algorithm somewhere. But honestly I think it's more likely that the bias is in the Western social media platforms, as has been reported by non-other than Western-media.

Are you joking? China and Russia want "a new world order", which is a reference that would be extremely clear to (older) politicians but not to most people. The US (even under Trump) supports the UN world view, which is a lot of independent small countries that serve their own interests, protected by a group of nuclear-armed "superpowers" that can annihilate each other, but only at the cost of their own lives.

The "new world order", Putin said it most explicitly. It is to not necessarily end countries as a concept, but to create 2 kinds of countries: the "superpowers", with in his case a focus on Russia, but essentially the US, Russia, China and maybe India. Every other country would have to choose one of the superpowers ... or face military action and invasion. And, like Belarus, Moldova and Hungary, but equally Mongolia, Tibet, ... would have to do what their allied super power wants, whatever it wants.

This usually means giving up their natural resources without getting the best price on international markets. But it can mean other things, like sabotaging other would-be superpowers (like Hungary's "EU membership" that is working overtime to prevent EU "interference" in Ukraine)

Now rule number 1 of the "old" US-centric post-WW2 world order is, of course, no moving country borders, under any circumstances. There is a tiny escape hatch, which is that if you absolutely utterly for some reason have to move country borders, you need agreement of EVERY nuclear power (this is the UN security council), and a majority of all members. Now Palestinians want to conquer Israel ... and ... well. Sorry. Not allowed. If that's allowed then this might spiral into 500 conflicts worldwide with a lot of countries trying to conquer ... something (like natural resources, harbors, eradicate and/or replace some ethnic group (for example Rwanda/Congo) ...), and because of the total military dominance of a few countries, lead to the "superpowers-get-anything-they-want-for-free" world order vision of Putin and Xi.

Hence how the cards lie: US - wants the "two state solution" (meaning Israel and Palestinians DO NOT MOVE). This solution has the problem that Palestinians (and most of the world's muslims) hate it, and after 7 or so wars, Israel is no longer much of a fan of it, either. But if there's one thing that neither the US, nor China, nor Russia, nor the UN cares about, it's what anybody other than they themselves want.

Russia and China - want the situation destabilized. Just so we're clear: they don't want Palestinians to win, they want war. They want the whole middle east fighting, which seems achievable, they want borders to move because that will be one more argument for their new world order. You should not misunderstand this as wanting to help the Palestinians. They DO NOT want Palestinians to win. Just to not lose quite a rapidly. Get enough people to die on a constant basis to get the middle east boiling, nothing more. They want chaos, and they probably perceive Israel's attitude as being 20% removed from finally giving the Palestinians the chaos they so desperately seem to want (I would argue Palestinians don't really want war, they just have corrupt leadership that keeps getting bribed by Russia and now China to cause war. For Palestinians, it's about money for the rich, not land, not religion or racism. Even though they are racist pseudo-religious fanatics, but beyond a good sounding excuse, that's not important at all. The world is full of racist pseudo-religious groups of fanatics).

What China and Russia see in the Palestinians is a way to create war, create chaos. To be able to say to African nations "you know, if Chinese companies get to mine those lithium deposits in your country, we could protect you from your neighbor that wants to eradicate your people with Russian weapons ... deal?"

I would argue that absolutely nobody other than Putin and the CCP want that (and therefore, yes, rational people want the Palestinians to lose any conflict as badly and as quickly as possible, to minimize the chance of the conflict blowing up, while simultaneously pressuring Israel to leave the status quo alone)

Re: The reason behind the TikTok ban

#17
post #3

If this post gets flagged I will lose all trust in this forum and its admins. This is not the first instance a post like this gets flagged. This post perfectly relates to the themes of the forum. This is completely and utterly unacceptable. Edit: I'm at least thankfull the admins have restored the post.

Lots of users flag things because it’s a guaranteed flame war, I almost flagged it after reading because it’s kind of one persons opinion with a few references to politicians’ statements and it asserts that this is the whole story when it’s not, ie, just someone’s crappy substack without any substantial new info. But I’ll refrain hoping that there’s some discussion on the merits of banning Tik-Tok, but really anythin…

> but really anything Israel adjacent is not going to last long on hacker news. Arguing about it does not do much to build community.

hahaha, anything bad adjacent china/russia/DPRK(aka enemies of the democracy) were never flagged

but to be fair, there are rarely any disputes under these submits.

> Lots of users flag things because it’s a guaranteed flame war

no, lots of users flag things because it doesnt fit the narrative

i know this clearly, you know this clearly, everyone knows this clearly, some just pretend they don't

However, I believe this is precisely one manifestation of democracy. Just as the Israeli people "democratically" support genocide, once you control education and dominate the narrative, democracy will do the rest for you

20 years later, genocide in gaza will become misinformation pushed by CCP and Putin, everyone mention it will be flagged

Re: The reason behind the TikTok ban

#18
post #16
post #6

One has to wonder why the only major non-Western social media outlet turns out to not suppress anti-Israeli sentiment. Of course it could be possible that TikTok could have placed a bias in the algorithm somewhere. But honestly I think it's more likely that the bias is in the Western social media platforms, as has been reported by non-other than Western-media.

Are you joking? China and Russia want "a new world order", which is a reference that would be extremely clear to (older) politicians but not to most people. The US (even under Trump) supports the UN world view, which is a lot of independent small countries that serve their own interests, protected by a group of nuclear-armed "superpowers" that can annihilate each other, but only at the cost of their own lives. The "n…

> They want chaos, and they probably perceive Israel's attitude as being 20% removed from finally giving the Palestinians the chaos they so desperately seem to want

Did you come to this conclusion on your own, or did you see it in an article from some think tank?

do other americans think the way as same as you? that "we are the less of evil and the necessary evil" "there are bigger evil outside we must support the empire"

Re: The reason behind the TikTok ban

#19
post #16
post #6

One has to wonder why the only major non-Western social media outlet turns out to not suppress anti-Israeli sentiment. Of course it could be possible that TikTok could have placed a bias in the algorithm somewhere. But honestly I think it's more likely that the bias is in the Western social media platforms, as has been reported by non-other than Western-media.

Are you joking? China and Russia want "a new world order", which is a reference that would be extremely clear to (older) politicians but not to most people. The US (even under Trump) supports the UN world view, which is a lot of independent small countries that serve their own interests, protected by a group of nuclear-armed "superpowers" that can annihilate each other, but only at the cost of their own lives. The "n…

I don't think China wants chaos per se. I don't think either China or Russia want a situation where any given state can just decide to invade another state and move borders.

What you described as a "new world order" is a return to spheres of influence. The regional hegemon usually wants some degree of stability within their sphere. The whole imperial project is impeded when your subjects are fighting each other.

I think it is true that both Russia and China are open to limited chaos now, but not as a constant on-going feature. Chaos now is just a symptom of the current system in terminal decline. I can imagine all major powers of a new system using the relative stability of the new system as a legitimizing point (aimed both at domestic consumption, as well as to their subject states).

Finally, I think describing "what the US wants" right now is basically impossible. Even before Trump, there has always been (and especially in the last ~20 years) this ever growing chasm between the reality of soft empire, and "what the man on the street" believes and thinks about the reality of American power and its benefits and costs.

Re: The reason behind the TikTok ban

#20
post #16
post #6

One has to wonder why the only major non-Western social media outlet turns out to not suppress anti-Israeli sentiment. Of course it could be possible that TikTok could have placed a bias in the algorithm somewhere. But honestly I think it's more likely that the bias is in the Western social media platforms, as has been reported by non-other than Western-media.

Are you joking? China and Russia want "a new world order", which is a reference that would be extremely clear to (older) politicians but not to most people. The US (even under Trump) supports the UN world view, which is a lot of independent small countries that serve their own interests, protected by a group of nuclear-armed "superpowers" that can annihilate each other, but only at the cost of their own lives. The "n…

> Now Palestinians want to conquer Israel ... and ... well. Sorry. Not allowed

Look at a political map of the area over time dude.

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