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US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

energy.gov

11–20 of 51 posts

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#11
post #3

The title of the submission is nowhere in line with what the linked page even talks about. Flagging for out right lying. Titled when I wrote this comment is: "US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards" All the press release mentions is that they are not moving forward on new standards that Biden was pushing for while he was in office. Existing energy efficiency standards for appliances are still in e…

The title is in fact correct. They are ending the appliance efficiency standards recently set. It doesn't say they're ending "all" standards, which is what you're implying. So you can drop the "flagging for lying".

They're ending ones that weren't even in force yet.

The title definitely sounds like they're wholesale removing them.

The title is very deceptive.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#12

These press releases chill me to the bone with how 1984 speak they are. I’ve never seen whole agencies just completely gutted and replaced with nonsense like this before. The executive branch of the government was never meant to have this much power. We didn’t fight a war against a king so that we could just devolve to that again.

How so? There's a tradeoff here between price and quality, and the different political parties have different preferences for what should be allowed. Obviously they're going to talk about the benefits and not the downsides of a particular choice, but that hardly strikes me as 1984.

It's not about quality, it's about reducing energy consumption, which is critical because ... climate change (among other things). Come on, I shouldn't need to explain this.

Trump wants to bring back incandescent lightbulbs. And burn more coal.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#13
IMHO this is a good thing if it ends the now-common practice of chasing after tiny gains in efficiency at the cost of shortened lifespans and more difficult repair.

The list of specifications developed during the last administration have encouraged the sale of bathroom and kitchen faucets, residential toilets and sprinkler nozzles that just don’t work well.

I think that's been a problem since before the last administration...

Related:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20856036

http://www.freeexistence.org/highflow_toilet.html

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#14
post #7
post #3

The title of the submission is nowhere in line with what the linked page even talks about. Flagging for out right lying. Titled when I wrote this comment is: "US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards" All the press release mentions is that they are not moving forward on new standards that Biden was pushing for while he was in office. Existing energy efficiency standards for appliances are still in e…

> The title of the submission is nowhere in line with what the linked page even talks about. Flagging for our right lying. All the press release mentions is that they are not moving forward on new standards that Biden was pushing for while he was in office. Existing energy efficiency standards for appliances are still in effect. This is a very odd take. The title is based on the only part of the article that isn't PR…

If the title said "cancelling new appliance efficiency standards" it would be fine.

You wrote "ending appliance efficiency standards". That is a bad title.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#15
I hope this means a move away from standards that result in serious usability impacts for moderate improvements.

Examples I've personally experienced is that many/most driers now available require multiple attempts to get clothes actually try. Then there was the debacle of fedora enabling aggressive power saving in a difficult to disable way in updates, claiming it was mandated-- resulting in nonsense like remote hands incidents to unsuspend servers and users using TV as monitors perpetually needing to turn the TV on and off every use because TV's won't wake and the power saving functionality wasn't disclosed (if you could even figure out that this was WHY the screen kept failing-- and did so without sending a display to the landfill first).

Energy efficiency when it comes at no impact to functionality is good (at least if it pays for its own landfill burden-- many home devices have more embodied energy in their manufacture than they'll ever use) but when it has a usability impact it really ought to have a good justification or even just not happen at all because people are capable of choosing more efficient devices when it actually makes sense to do so.

(like the efficiency impact of a device run for 10 minutes a month is very very different from something that runs 24/7 and usually only the owner of the device knows the usage).

Intrusive requirements also set back environmental causes by enlisting opposition by members of the public that are harmed by them-- which could easily have a greater long term impact than the benefit of the standard. (and if it's argued that these changes have gone too far, then I'd say it's likely an example of exactly that).

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#16
post #3

The title of the submission is nowhere in line with what the linked page even talks about. Flagging for out right lying. Titled when I wrote this comment is: "US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards" All the press release mentions is that they are not moving forward on new standards that Biden was pushing for while he was in office. Existing energy efficiency standards for appliances are still in e…

"Today’s actions postpone the efficiency standards for the following home appliance rules." Seems substantially correct. Although I agree it doesn't meet the usual standards for just copying the article's headline.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? There's a tradeoff here between price and quality, and the different political parties have different preferences for what should be allowed. Obviously they're going to talk about the benefits and not the downsides of a particular choice, but that hardly strikes me as 1984.

It's not about quality, it's about reducing energy consumption, which is critical because ... climate change (among other things). Come on, I shouldn't need to explain this. Trump wants to bring back incandescent lightbulbs. And burn more coal.

Energy efficiency is a quality metric. Come on, I shouldn't need to explain this.

Even if you disagree with that for some reason, it doesn't really affect my point. It's a tradeoff and they want different rules about what options on the tradeoff curve are valid.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? There's a tradeoff here between price and quality, and the different political parties have different preferences for what should be allowed. Obviously they're going to talk about the benefits and not the downsides of a particular choice, but that hardly strikes me as 1984.

It's not about quality, it's about reducing energy consumption, which is critical because ... climate change (among other things). Come on, I shouldn't need to explain this. Trump wants to bring back incandescent lightbulbs. And burn more coal.

The problem was that at least for some categories, the regulations weren't making appliances actually more efficient any longer, but rather just gaming the numbers by skimping on their primary functionality. For example clothes washers that don't use enough water to get clothes clean (hot water is directly counted as energy use), or dishwashers that skip having a heating element for the dry cycle, and then substitute some combo of dodgy "rinse aid", humidity-absorbing crystals that regenerate by using heat from the water, and drip drying.

Don't get me wrong, being an electrical engineer, doing a lot of DIY repair, and taking note of what goes into appliances I've got zero faith in manufacturers to come up with more efficient solutions on their own. But at a certain point the ever-advancing regulations stopped being productive as well. You can only switch to ECM/brushless motors one time.

(Also a meta issue - if the actions of the Trump administration were limited to only executive branch domestic policies like this, we could at least readjust in four years)

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is in fact correct. They are ending the appliance efficiency standards recently set. It doesn't say they're ending "all" standards, which is what you're implying. So you can drop the "flagging for lying".

They're ending ones that weren't even in force yet. The title definitely sounds like they're wholesale removing them. The title is very deceptive.

The article title is: "Energy Department Acts to Lower Prices and Increase Consumer Choice with Household Appliances", which says nothing of substance.

The only part of the article that explained what was done states: "Today’s actions postpone the efficiency standards for the following home appliance rules:"

Would a title of "US energy department indefinitely postpones efficiency standards for home appliances" sound less deceptive to you?

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about quality, it's about reducing energy consumption, which is critical because ... climate change (among other things). Come on, I shouldn't need to explain this. Trump wants to bring back incandescent lightbulbs. And burn more coal.

Energy efficiency is a quality metric. Come on, I shouldn't need to explain this. Even if you disagree with that for some reason, it doesn't really affect my point. It's a tradeoff and they want different rules about what options on the tradeoff curve are valid.

No, Trump wants to gut anything related to climate change initiatives because they were enacted by the previous administration.

It has nothing to do with quality tradeoff curves.

You don't even have to do a lot of critical thinking to get this; Trump has made it pretty clear.

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