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Garzik: An Andre To Remember

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Re: Garzik: An Andre To Remember

#11

Post by flexd »

Udo wrote: post #3

It's hard to disagree with the general sentiment, but trading a life for a computing project is not really what happened here. Software development does not cause mental illness. In some cases, stressful jobs contribute to a person's mental degradation - but it's not like there was ever an option of trading in this guys passion for technology in exchange for a healthy brain.

I feel the real message of the article/letter is to take better care of yourself. No project is worth ending up in a situation where you feel life is not worth living, and while software and other computer things are cool and for most of us probably both work and a hobby, it's important to take a break from things.

I know I would go absolutely crazy if I could not go outside to do things like ride a mountain bike, eat some ice cream or simply just not sit in front of a monitor every day.

If you are feeling stressed, take a break. :)

Edit:

I know it can be hard, and I know people who suffer from depressions can seem perfectly fine.

A girl I went to school with recently killed herself, much to my surprise, as through my very limited contact with her these past years she seemed very happy in a relationship and about to finish school. The next thing I know she had ended her life. Depression is not something to be taken lightly.

I wish I had known, and I wish there was something I could have done or said.

Re: Garzik: An Andre To Remember

#12

Post by neutronicus »

paulrademacher wrote: post #4

And as usual with this issue, this post shows little understanding of depression. > There is no computing project that is worth your life. Turn off the computer. Seek help. Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni ne…

Anecdotally, I've found exercise very helpful.

Re: Garzik: An Andre To Remember

#14

Post by vacri »

paulrademacher wrote: post #4

And as usual with this issue, this post shows little understanding of depression. > There is no computing project that is worth your life. Turn off the computer. Seek help. Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni ne…

I've studied mental illness formally and suffer from some mild clinical depression myself. It's my sincere opinion that people simply can't understand mental illness unless they have properly studied it or have direct personal experience (including by proxy). It just doesn't fit into the uninitiated's picture of the world.

That being said, although the article doesn't show a deep understanding of mental illness, the things he mentions in the last paragraph can help ameliorate depression. One of the big problems is that it's really hard for a mentally ill person to motivate themselves to try to fix things - mental illness is really insidious; even if you know you have an illness, you may not realise you're having an episode.

Re: Garzik: An Andre To Remember

#15

Post by vacri »

jdietrich wrote: post #10
paulrademacher wrote: post #4

And as usual with this issue, this post shows little understanding of depression. > There is no computing project that is worth your life. Turn off the computer. Seek help. Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni ne…

What do we mean by "seek help"? Currently, we have two gold standard treatments, SSRI drugs and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. SSRI drugs probably sort of work a bit, depending on how much weight you place on non-publication bias. The most flattering data suggests that SSRIs beat placebo by about 30%, meaning that over 75% of the effect of SSRIs is accounted for by placebo - the patient's own beliefs about the effica…

Going to someone to hear them say "exercise and improve your diet" is "seeking help".

Re: Garzik: An Andre To Remember

#16

Post by marketer »

Udo wrote: post #3

It's hard to disagree with the general sentiment, but trading a life for a computing project is not really what happened here. Software development does not cause mental illness. In some cases, stressful jobs contribute to a person's mental degradation - but it's not like there was ever an option of trading in this guys passion for technology in exchange for a healthy brain.

Programming all day isn't what our bodies are genetically designed to do. Programming involves countless hours of ruminative thoughts, and limiting human contact, and stress, all of which are ingredients for mental illness.

Re: Garzik: An Andre To Remember

#17

Post by tsahyt »

andrewvc wrote: post #2

That's a sad story, and one that's too common in our industry. Mental health issues in software are sadly under-discussed. If you feel like making a difference I'd recommend donating to the Brain & Behavior Research Foundation. They fund studies into mental health disorders, an area of science that is still only vaguely understood. http://bbrfoundation.org/

They're probably not just under-discussed in software but in any industry, because they're under-discussed in society as a whole. I don't know about the US but I believe mentally ill people often refuse to seek help even after they recognized their condition simply because they realize they're "not normal", afraid to be put in the drawer labeled with "crazy guys".

I think though that mental illnesses are a lot more common than we realize, and to some degree society is actually breeding them. It's a very complex topic though, so take that as an opinion, not as facts or anything.

Re: Garzik: An Andre To Remember

#18

Post by epaik »

raverbashing wrote: post #7
paulrademacher wrote: post #4

And as usual with this issue, this post shows little understanding of depression. > There is no computing project that is worth your life. Turn off the computer. Seek help. Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni ne…

Based on the description on the Article this is anything but depression May be bipolar disorder, or something more serious But it's true, it's a misunderstanding, this has nothing to do with "staying in the computer too long" or "being stressed out" or "not going to the park"

Indeed, Andre's symptoms seem to match more of an onset of paranoid schizophrenia rather than depression.

Unfortunately, it seems that genetics is a key factor of causing mental illness, rather than the time you spend on the computer. So even if you're the healthiest person physically, you can still be at risk of a mental disorder...

Re: Garzik: An Andre To Remember

#19

Post by tsahyt »

neutronicus wrote: post #12
paulrademacher wrote: post #4

And as usual with this issue, this post shows little understanding of depression. > There is no computing project that is worth your life. Turn off the computer. Seek help. Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni ne…

Anecdotally, I've found exercise very helpful.

Exercise seems to work because it allows us to switch our brains off and concentrate on our bodies. I like to see it as a way to give your brain room to breathe.

Reminds me, I need to work out and free my mind more often :)

Re: Garzik: An Andre To Remember

#20

Post by hobin »

I was going to respond to a few of the comments here, but then I realized I was going to say pretty much the same to all of them, so here goes:

I've got clinical depression. What this means is that there is something fundamentally wrong in my brain that causes me to be depressed. There is no direct environmental cause that makes me depressed. Now, here's what many people get wrong about severe depression:

Severe depression does NOT mean that exercise, a healthy diet and getting a social life won't help at all.

Rather, depression completely drains your motivation to do any of those things. Which in turn make you more depressed. Which makes you even less likely to do any of them. And so on and so forth. It's 'positive' feedback, but it starts with a neurological problem. This is why all the 'cheer up'-sort of advice doesn't help people who're depressed, and why it tends to only make them more miserable.

Of course, this is only my experience. I'm quite sure there are plenty of people who are depressed for reasons found in their environment, and then get stuck in the same loop. But it would be ridiculous to presume that I'm unique in this regard.

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