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"the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

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11–20 of 78 posts

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#11

Is creativity in banking really that important? Creativity in banking gave us the housing bubble. And the dot-com bubble. And redlining.

Creativity (the ability to form novel ideas, use imagination, engage in investigation, etc.) is a critical component of many workplaces, including banking and finance. Creativity is not a dirty word, nor is it a positive one. Creativity can be used for positive and negative ends. Creativity in finance brought the CFPB, Dodd-Frank, Glass-Stegall... along with De-regulation, Free Trade, or Laissez Faire.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#12

We have some really phoning it in zoom folks we've hired who do their job semi ok but are just awful and don't contribute to culture, are super dialed out. I don't want to totally damn them, because they have families and lives and other things going. But I've had a number of coworkers tell me they have re-adapted their code review to say near nothing (it won't be well received) and to otherwise end their own good-cu…

i sort of agree wit your sentiment, although probably would use more nuanced language about it.

i’ve had this exact conversation with my 70+ still working father so many times now. i’ve heard the rant in the article over and over again. and, like, he blames remote work too. “its the fucking zoom bullshit”.

but then i explain to him how i do remote work and suddenly gets it. like, remote working means you are required to work in a more direct and efficient way. you have to work hard at comms. you have to write everything with purpose. no “oh hey did you look at X”. instead “hey we need X done by T because otherwise Y. if you need to speak to P about it, they’re available this afternoon. contact me if anything is unclear and i’ll explain it to you on a call asap. let me know when you’ve read this please.”. like, i’ve debugged a production outage on my phone with other devs while in a doctors waiting room.

the problem is, yeah, a lot of people do treat it like a chance to sit at home doing the bare minimum.

and i think you kind of hit the nail on the head for something i hadn’t clocked. they can get away with it because “management” utterly suck at their jobs and haven’t adapted. like, i hear about people stuck in zoom meetings all the time… WHY?!? you don’t need face to face comms to work remotely. at all. it’s clinging on to the old ways of doing things!

up until now i’d been putting it down to a purely generational “can’t teach old dogs new tricks” thing. maybe it kind of is, just not in a way i’d seen before.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#13

We have some really phoning it in zoom folks we've hired who do their job semi ok but are just awful and don't contribute to culture, are super dialed out. I don't want to totally damn them, because they have families and lives and other things going. But I've had a number of coworkers tell me they have re-adapted their code review to say near nothing (it won't be well received) and to otherwise end their own good-cu…

How do you get people to stop looking at their fucking phones during zoom meetings? Sure if we had a magic perfect management fairy that could sprinkle perfect management skills on the managers maybe people would be better at working remotely but people are mostly lazy and will mostly do whatever they can get away with. And its way easier to get away with looking at your fucking phone during a zoom meeting than an in…

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Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#14

Is creativity in banking really that important? Creativity in banking gave us the housing bubble. And the dot-com bubble. And redlining.

Creativity (the ability to form novel ideas, use imagination, engage in investigation, etc.) is a critical component of many workplaces, including banking and finance. Creativity is not a dirty word, nor is it a positive one. Creativity can be used for positive and negative ends. Creativity in finance brought the CFPB, Dodd-Frank, Glass-Stegall... along with De-regulation, Free Trade, or Laissez Faire.

“Banking” being the operative concept here, I think, moreso than “creativity”

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#15

We have some really phoning it in zoom folks we've hired who do their job semi ok but are just awful and don't contribute to culture, are super dialed out. I don't want to totally damn them, because they have families and lives and other things going. But I've had a number of coworkers tell me they have re-adapted their code review to say near nothing (it won't be well received) and to otherwise end their own good-cu…

How do you get people to stop looking at their fucking phones during zoom meetings? Sure if we had a magic perfect management fairy that could sprinkle perfect management skills on the managers maybe people would be better at working remotely but people are mostly lazy and will mostly do whatever they can get away with. And its way easier to get away with looking at your fucking phone during a zoom meeting than an in…

If people are checked out during meetings, maybe they don't really have to be there. When I set up a meeting I try to ensure only people who really, really need to be there are invited. Way too many meetings are like: "1. Eng Lead Presenter, 2. VP who's receiving the update, and 3-10. Team members involved in the project." If 3-10 are not expected to speak/contribute and already know what 1 is presenting, why the fuck are they there? To sit there and pick their noses? They could be a lot more focused and productive back at their desks (or not connected to video conference). I don't invite them, and if I invite them by mistake and they know they aren't contributing, I expect them to decline and not show up! I don’t want tourists at my meetings.

Companies where non-contributors and non-receivers feel pressured to come to meetings just to show their faces are Doing It Wrong.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#16

We have some really phoning it in zoom folks we've hired who do their job semi ok but are just awful and don't contribute to culture, are super dialed out. I don't want to totally damn them, because they have families and lives and other things going. But I've had a number of coworkers tell me they have re-adapted their code review to say near nothing (it won't be well received) and to otherwise end their own good-cu…

How do you get people to stop looking at their fucking phones during zoom meetings? Sure if we had a magic perfect management fairy that could sprinkle perfect management skills on the managers maybe people would be better at working remotely but people are mostly lazy and will mostly do whatever they can get away with. And its way easier to get away with looking at your fucking phone during a zoom meeting than an in…

fewer, more purposeful meetings usually helps (not saying you do too many useless meetings, but it’s the general sentiment on here and with people i know IRL about why they slack off - cis the meetings they’re in are usually a waste of time)

see latter part of other comment in the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43056026

edit — was also going to suggest, at the start of the meeting politely but assertively request everyone turns their phone off at the start.

if it looks like someone is fucking around with their phone, pause the meeting. remind everyone about the request at the start of the meeting. resume the meeting. don’t drag it out and turn it into a rant. don’t call the individual out. just make it known that the behaviour is not okay. get back on with things. do it each time it happens.

do that for every meeting for a few weeks. some people will hopefully get the message. some people might not. hopefully enough people get the message to make a difference.

they might think you’re a dick for it, at least to begin with (it’s enforced change from an authority), but up to you to decide whether it’s valuable enough to see through.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#17

We have some really phoning it in zoom folks we've hired who do their job semi ok but are just awful and don't contribute to culture, are super dialed out. I don't want to totally damn them, because they have families and lives and other things going. But I've had a number of coworkers tell me they have re-adapted their code review to say near nothing (it won't be well received) and to otherwise end their own good-cu…

How do you get people to stop looking at their fucking phones during zoom meetings? Sure if we had a magic perfect management fairy that could sprinkle perfect management skills on the managers maybe people would be better at working remotely but people are mostly lazy and will mostly do whatever they can get away with. And its way easier to get away with looking at your fucking phone during a zoom meeting than an in…

Phones are an addiction. I know executives who have a box outside the conference room and everyone has to put their phone in the box as they enter the meeting. They pick up their phone on the way out.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#18
post #9

I enjoyed the year I consulted at JPMC, they have some sharp people, and on the surface of it, who am I to criticise the boss of such a successful company? OTOH… I can see the argument that young people aren’t being exposed to older peers the same way and their learning may be stunted. But… I haven’t set foot in an office for five years now and I’m as productive as I ever was. Possibly more. As for his “people are di…

> people are distracted during meetings

It feels like he's just old and pining for days gone by - in person meetings have people staring at their laptops and phones too. I dislike that as well, but that's not a WFH issue.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get people to stop looking at their fucking phones during zoom meetings? Sure if we had a magic perfect management fairy that could sprinkle perfect management skills on the managers maybe people would be better at working remotely but people are mostly lazy and will mostly do whatever they can get away with. And its way easier to get away with looking at your fucking phone during a zoom meeting than an in…

Phones are an addiction. I know executives who have a box outside the conference room and everyone has to put their phone in the box as they enter the meeting. They pick up their phone on the way out.

Do they make their employees ask for the hall pass to go to the bathroom as well?

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#20
post #9

I enjoyed the year I consulted at JPMC, they have some sharp people, and on the surface of it, who am I to criticise the boss of such a successful company? OTOH… I can see the argument that young people aren’t being exposed to older peers the same way and their learning may be stunted. But… I haven’t set foot in an office for five years now and I’m as productive as I ever was. Possibly more. As for his “people are di…

> I can see the argument that young people aren’t being exposed to older peers the same way and their learning may be stunted.

I agree with this, but I didn't grow up with a phone in my hand. I didn't have a mobile phone until I was about 30 years old and I didn't have a smartphone until I was in my 40s. I can't work well with people over remote calls, I hate Zoom and desktop sharing, don't like slack or teams. I find it so much more efficient to sit with another person or small group if there is a group task to be completed or a group decision to be made.

That said, unnecessary meetings are a real thing, have been a problem in large orgs forever, and Zoom doesn't fix that. Might make it worse, as invites are not limited by the physical size of the room.

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