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Civil War Comes to the West (2023)

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Re: Civil War Comes to the West (2023)

#11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 71% of respondents said that Switzerland’s direct democracy was the most effective way of promoting social cohesion. According to Sotomo, it gives the population a sense of self-empowerment. I agree, which is why I am not entirely convinced by the Neofedualism arguments of late. But it’s undeniable that increasing polarization makes some parts of the democratic tradition infeasible.

> not entirely convinced But you're somewhat convinced? Interesting .. (if I didn't miss the sarcasm) would like to hear your arguments for (arab-style?) neofeudalism.. are they along the lines of de Maistre/Yarvin?

I just think uninformed opinions can dilute democracies, and can make nation states fragile when external actors can opinion shop to create support for, or against, some point of view. The internet makes this especially easy since anyone’s profile can be popularized by external actors at little to no expense.

But this is a game which all nations play to some extent. I understand the importance of this gameplay for statecraft, but I don’t like the way it can impact democratic institutions, like journalism and free speech.

I don’t think the cure to any of these, for the sake of preserving democracies, is authoritarianism, instead I think it’s better to proliferate “moderate” thinking. If someone isn’t fully-aligned with one ideological tribe or another, it’s harder to sway them to any self-destructive position, like civil war-type conflict.

Re: Civil War Comes to the West (2023)

#12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not entirely convinced But you're somewhat convinced? Interesting .. (if I didn't miss the sarcasm) would like to hear your arguments for (arab-style?) neofeudalism.. are they along the lines of de Maistre/Yarvin?

I just think uninformed opinions can dilute democracies, and can make nation states fragile when external actors can opinion shop to create support for, or against, some point of view. The internet makes this especially easy since anyone’s profile can be popularized by external actors at little to no expense. But this is a game which all nations play to some extent. I understand the importance of this gameplay for st…

It's hard to have moderate thinking in a 2-party (federal) system, where both are of comparable strength. Even if each start off equanimous on any given stance. Trying to think of a counter-example. Elites will have to be brought up with the doctrine that moderation is strength? Easy to blame character but prevailing cultural attitudes are also impt (aside from the ones towards misinformation, bad faith etc).

Re: Civil War Comes to the West (2023)

#13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just think uninformed opinions can dilute democracies, and can make nation states fragile when external actors can opinion shop to create support for, or against, some point of view. The internet makes this especially easy since anyone’s profile can be popularized by external actors at little to no expense. But this is a game which all nations play to some extent. I understand the importance of this gameplay for st…

It's hard to have moderate thinking in a 2-party (federal) system, where both are of comparable strength. Even if each start off equanimous on any given stance. Trying to think of a counter-example. Elites will have to be brought up with the doctrine that moderation is strength? Easy to blame character but prevailing cultural attitudes are also impt (aside from the ones towards misinformation, bad faith etc).

You’re right, but only if voters have an obligation to vote along party lines (tribalism). If, however, they’re encouraged to vote for purple or independent representatives, then no one party can hope for sustained majority control. I think the selling point of moderate politics is cultural stability, but maybe there’s something I haven’t considered, and this is not the most ideal solution for factionalism.

Re: Civil War Comes to the West (2023)

#14
Two things:

1. Should have (2023) in the title.

2. Civil war is unlikely, because the stakes are too high.

There is a conflict of philosophies pulling the "West" in two directions. Small-government oligarchy vs big-government monarchy. (If you thought it was "Republican vs Democrat" or "left vs right" or "mass deporation vs California" like ilaksh here, you have too limited a perspective and need to dig deeper). But I think it's morelikely that the US will be given over to one side or the other in a grand trade.

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