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How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

reuters.com

11–20 of 311 posts

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#11
post #8

Japanese carmakers are going to become irrelevant [1] unless there's a major change. But that's very unlikely due to: 1. Supply chains and key raw materials mostly controlled by China 2. Japan's demographic collapse 3. Japanese Gen Z fed up with an unwinnable rat race where they live to just pay rent and groceries It's very sad. [1] https://carnewschina.com/2025/01/13/byd-surpass-toyota-in-ja...

There's one graph that basically predicts which countries are going to fail and which are going to prevail. It's the graph that shows how many people in the "doing things" age bracket a country has.

Compare these:

(germany) https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=276&type=Probabilis...

(alternatively, Europe as a whole) https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=908&type=Probabilis...

(Japan) https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=392&type=Probabilis...

(China) https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=156&type=Probabilis...

to this one

(US) https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=840&type=Probabilis...

A key aggravating factor is most countries in the first group have stagnating productivity and the country in the second group has raising productivity on top. This creates a compound advantage for the country in the second group.

It seems likely to me that there is almost no degree of anti-national behavior the government of that country would need to exhibit or no amount of country-eroding policies that could forfeit this fundamental advantage. They'd need to get their country literally nuked or something similarly catastrophic.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#12

This basically means Nissan is dying. It's finances are screwed right now, and this was essentially their last hope. Nissan may not survive the year.

This made me think of the Nissan.com guy and am just now learning he passed in 2020.

https://nissan.com/

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#14

Nissan, Honda & eventually Toyota are going to go the way of Nokia/Motorola after iPhone came out. Cheap and reliable Chinese EVs will take over the market (like Android), while Tesla will probably maintain a halo premium product like iPhone.

Tesla gained a reputation of being the best EVs around, by virtue of being essentially the only company making EVs able to truly replace a gas car for close to a decade. It's easy to be the best in a category with just one competitor.

Now that other companies are making EVs that compete directly with Tesla, they aren't reliably best-in-class or best-in-price-point anymore. Compare the Rivian R1T to the Cybertruck, or the Equinox EV to the Model Y, or the Ioniq 6 to the Model 3. The top of the line Model S still doesn't really have any viable competitor.

Tesla has phenomenal battery and motor tech, but their actual car design leaves a lot to be desired, and that's starting to hurt them now that they aren't the only game in town.

And the fact that their CEO throws Nazi salutes at political rallies does not help their market share. In Europe at least that's directly impacting their sales.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#15
post #7

Nissan, Honda & eventually Toyota are going to go the way of Nokia/Motorola after iPhone came out. Cheap and reliable Chinese EVs will take over the market (like Android), while Tesla will probably maintain a halo premium product like iPhone.

Tesla is going down the drain, at least in Europe, unless shareholders evict Musk. Nothing iPhone-like with that brand anymore.

This sounds like political venting more than a financial analysis.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#16

This basically means Nissan is dying. It's finances are screwed right now, and this was essentially their last hope. Nissan may not survive the year.

This made me think of the Nissan.com guy and am just now learning he passed in 2020. https://nissan.com/

Oh that’s sad :( I was always rooting for him.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is going down the drain, at least in Europe, unless shareholders evict Musk. Nothing iPhone-like with that brand anymore.

Tesla makes great products.

Tesla has great battery and motor tech. Their quality control and car interiors leave a lot to be desired.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#19
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is going down the drain, at least in Europe, unless shareholders evict Musk. Nothing iPhone-like with that brand anymore.

This sounds like political venting more than a financial analysis.

The parent specified in Europe. It's a fact that in January 2025, European Tesla sales have had significant YoY declines, attributed to Musk's political activity. A greater than 50% drop in sales in France and Germany, for example.

Here are a couple sources.

https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea311...

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/05/business/tesla-germany-el...

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#20
post #7

Nissan, Honda & eventually Toyota are going to go the way of Nokia/Motorola after iPhone came out. Cheap and reliable Chinese EVs will take over the market (like Android), while Tesla will probably maintain a halo premium product like iPhone.

Tesla is going down the drain, at least in Europe, unless shareholders evict Musk. Nothing iPhone-like with that brand anymore.

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