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Gnome: Staring into the abyss

blogs.gnome.org

11–20 of 188 posts

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#11
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it applies to the foundation Unity is built upon, as well: GTK has 1 person working full-time on it (me). Glib doesn’t even have that. I think evolution is in a similar situation (a complete email client). Also, competition is always good.

I'm confident that Canonical is on top of this.

[deleted]

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confident that Canonical is on top of this.

Nahh, Evolution is not the default client anymore (sadly, i prefer it to thunderbird) and Unity is built on top of compiz, where gnome-shell uses mutter. :(

Compiz is not without problems either: http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2011/12/25/apology-2/

And Mozilla has left Thunderbird more or less. Lack of developer power seems to be a pattern within open source desktop projects.

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#13
GNOME is not necessary anymore. It was in the past, not today.

We have Qt that really works, much much better, and with LGPL license.

You can run stellarium, VLC or Marble in Mac or Windows without problems.

If you try to use gimp or inkscape in mac it opens x11, copy and paste does not work(in inkscape it copies pixmaps instead of vectors!!), what a botched job.

In windows you will have a lot of problems too.

GTK support for OpenGL, OpenCL was terrible, having to low code everything, while in Qt works as well as with cocoa.

Let GTK die and improve(or fork) Qt.

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nahh, Evolution is not the default client anymore (sadly, i prefer it to thunderbird) and Unity is built on top of compiz, where gnome-shell uses mutter. :(

Compiz is not without problems either: http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2011/12/25/apology-2/ And Mozilla has left Thunderbird more or less. Lack of developer power seems to be a pattern within open source desktop projects.

Yes, knew about compiz, that's why it's a shame that Canonical chose this direction instead of putting more developer efforts into the gnome stuff.

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Unity 2D is based on Qt and also works pretty well these days. It seems that they have spread the risks somewhat. I do thing the general developments in the ecosystem are somewhat worrying. Nokia's involvement in Qt is becoming more clouded, and everyone is distracted by tablets and smartphones (and naturally, the money streams go into those directions). That said, that's also an opportunity for more consol…

Unity 2D is deprecated: http://www.doadjustyourset.com/2012/07/16/ubuntu-tv-weekly-u... "Since Unity 2D was depreciated for Ubuntu 12.10, much work is being done to port Ubuntu TV to Unity 3D" http://www.doadjustyourset.com/2012/07/20/ubuntu-tv-weekly-u... "Continued progress removing Qt and replacing with Nux" http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA5O... "Unity 2D To Go Away In Ubuntu 12.10"

When Unity 2D will not be available, does it mean that Ubuntu will NOT run as a VirtualBox guest? I recently switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to 12.04 in VirtualBox - mostly for development. I start to like Unity. But Ubuntu 12.04 is much slower than 10.04, in terms of GUI and responsiveness.

So what are Ubuntu's plans for GUI performance?

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#16
1. As the author says toward the end of the article, I think the biggest problem with Gnome nowadays is that only a small number of people actually use it on a day-to-day basis. Popular distros like Ubuntu and Mint have shifted away from it. No matter what merits Gnome 3 might have, it was such a flop in its first few releases that it has the Windows Vista stigma attached to it. Of course, there's GTK and several Gnome apps that people do use on a daily basis. But for many people, Gnome itself is decidedly uncool. No wonder they don't want to contribute to it.

2. If Gnome really wants to win back the hearts of potential contributors (i.e. power users), they'd better make programs that appeal to that demographic. People who have the skill and motivation to make significant contributions to a free software project often want a lot of room for configuration, including the option to use the desktop in a traditional manner. Taking away those little checkboxes and toolbar buttons is like slamming the door on power users. You might win a billion non-technical users, but none of them will ever submit a single patch.

3. Gnome is too big for its own good. Why does a desktop environment project need to maintain a complete stack of apps and libraries, from GTK to Gnome Shell to a text editor to a bundle of games to a web browser to an email client to a media player to a full-blown spreadsheet app? Why can't they just tell people to get a third-party browser? They should spin off the rest and focus on GTK, the Shell, and a small number of essential utilities. If Epiphany or Gnumeric died a slow and lonely death, how many people would really care? Heck, if you don't have the manpower to maintain anything else, just give me GTK so I can install xfce or lxde on top of it. It's really just Firefox and LibreOffice and VLC that I want, and I don't need Gnome to run them.

Edit: some rephrasing.

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#17
Damn, I knew Gnome was doing badly, but din't know it was this bad! :|

I personally am a fan of Gnome, and hope that they become relevent again. Unity is too fancy for my linking, and Unity 2D, which seems an option, is now deprecated! :|

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#18
post #16

1. As the author says toward the end of the article, I think the biggest problem with Gnome nowadays is that only a small number of people actually use it on a day-to-day basis. Popular distros like Ubuntu and Mint have shifted away from it. No matter what merits Gnome 3 might have, it was such a flop in its first few releases that it has the Windows Vista stigma attached to it. Of course, there's GTK and several Gno…

> Taking away those little checkboxes and toolbar buttons is like slamming the door on power users. You might win a billion non-technical users, but none of them will ever submit a single patch.

An experienced developer should be mature enough to know that he and his kind should not be the target audience of his product. And putting in all those little checkboxes makes a product a horrible experience for the rest of the world.

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#19
post #7

This is the (dead) G+ post by Linus that he refers to: http://digitizor.com/2011/08/04/linus-torvalds-ditches-gnome...

What these articles never mention is a follow-up comment by Torvalds: "And for all the people wasting everybodys time with "Why don't you use Unity/KDE/xfce/xyz" - I've tried them. They are even worse" https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDp...

This is also the way I feel. I don't quite like Gnome3 but it seems like the least worst option at the moment for me.

Tiling window managers, fluxbox etc: too much configuration, not sexy enough

Xfce: also doesn't look as slick, bugs

KDE: sluggish

I really like the Expose(?)-feature and really would miss it

Re: Gnome: Staring into the abyss

#20

GNOME is not necessary anymore. It was in the past, not today. We have Qt that really works, much much better, and with LGPL license. You can run stellarium, VLC or Marble in Mac or Windows without problems. If you try to use gimp or inkscape in mac it opens x11, copy and paste does not work(in inkscape it copies pixmaps instead of vectors!!), what a botched job. In windows you will have a lot of problems too. GTK su…

Your comment seems to be talking about GTK (the user interface library, which like Qt, is also LGPL licensed), while the original post is about the GNOME desktop environment. Since the latter does not run in Windows or OS X, your comment is sort of off-topic.
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