Why it is important not to have children (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why it is important not to have children (2012)

#11

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 10:46 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #9

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do not listen to this madness. Stallman makes his argument from a position that parenthood is a reasonable choice for most of us. That is no longer the case. For most of us, parenthood is out of reach. We are living in a 4 (typical) income economy. My adult children have no likely path to support themselves, nevertheless to be part of a self-sustaining, married couple. It's also because parenting time rose 20-fold…

> We are living in a 4 (typical) income economy. You've made this claim multiple times recently. What do you consider a "typical" income to base this on?

A typical income is the dollar/hr that is most obtainable - it is the pay for jobs that most people can apply to and get.

It used to be a rate of pay that young people could start a family on. In the 1990s I could answer an ad for a job that most people could do. That job alone would be nearly enough to support wife, me, 2 young kids. I'd make up the diff on the side.

That's gone and birth rates can't climb without it.

Re: Why it is important not to have children (2012)

#12

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 11:05 PM UTC

silexia wrote: post #10

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do not listen to this madness. Stallman makes his argument from a position that parenthood is a reasonable choice for most of us. That is no longer the case. For most of us, parenthood is out of reach. We are living in a 4 (typical) income economy. My adult children have no likely path to support themselves, nevertheless to be part of a self-sustaining, married couple. It's also because parenting time rose 20-fold…

I have four kids, soon to be five. Why did you have to be a 24/7 presence for your kids? Your parents let you roam everywhere and that worked fine? Don't trust the news and their endless doom scrolling... The world is far safer now than what you were raised in. Anyone could choose to do their own very small business, even just being a handyman, and have your kids go with you. The only thing kids actually require is f…

> Why did you have to be a 24/7 presence for your kids?

1) Like most kids here, my 5 had nowhere to go. They step out of the house and in every direction is a road and a trespassing risk.

What there wasn't: A large selection of (or any) places kids could safely reach and congregate every day without a risk of harm by cars or misguided adults (like police).

2) My wife and I risked arrest if my kids were seen without a supervising adult. Like all the other parents.

> Your parents let you roam everywhere and that worked fine?

It didn't just work fine, it was where most of my critical growth happened. It's where I learned to sort problems, work with peers, concoct and carry out plans, develop new interests based on actual experiences and navigate an endless array of complex situations.

It's where I developed the foundations that nurture mental health.

> The only thing kids actually require is food, water, and shelter.

If this is all kids have then they are likely experiencing neglect.

Re: Why it is important not to have children (2012)

#13

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 11:08 PM UTC

silexia wrote: post #10

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do not listen to this madness. Stallman makes his argument from a position that parenthood is a reasonable choice for most of us. That is no longer the case. For most of us, parenthood is out of reach. We are living in a 4 (typical) income economy. My adult children have no likely path to support themselves, nevertheless to be part of a self-sustaining, married couple. It's also because parenting time rose 20-fold…

I have four kids, soon to be five. Why did you have to be a 24/7 presence for your kids? Your parents let you roam everywhere and that worked fine? Don't trust the news and their endless doom scrolling... The world is far safer now than what you were raised in. Anyone could choose to do their own very small business, even just being a handyman, and have your kids go with you. The only thing kids actually require is f…

> Everyone in the modern world can do that (have reliable access to food+water+shelter).

This is wholly false. Me+kids frequently ate nothing but white rice for most of the 2010s. We sometimes couldn't afford rice. If it was during a school month, the kids could still eat twice. If not, then they didn't.

We barely stayed housed. The water was cut off more than once.

This is the US and our story is pretty common.