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Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

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Re: Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

#11

Post by jay_kyburz »

tikhonj wrote: post #8
bsphil wrote: post #5

I don't see the Windows 8 app store as a competitor to Steam though, in the same way that I don't see the Google Play store as a competitor to Steam. Steam already has a strong community knit directly into the gaming experience that I doubt Microsoft will be able to reproduce, if GFWL is any indication. And there's no way I'd pay a monthly fee like on Xbox Live. Hell, Origin isn't even that threatening to Steam, and…

I think the problem is that the Microsoft store will be the only way to get software on Windows 8 Rt. Microsoft is essentially pulling an Apple and there is no way that is a net benefit for Valve or the community in general. There are other problems with Windows 8, but I think the closed ARM version is a really big one.

Yeah but, Windows 8 itself is a train wreck. Seriously, who is going to upgrade to it? It's too different.

Nobody is going to go out of their way to buy it, the only installs it will get is as OEM's on new hardware.

And I bet even the OEMs will offer Windows 7 for as long as they can.

I think if users _have_ to have something different they will seriously consider OSX and Linux. One is more polished on better hardware for people who have money and want the best. The other is free for people who don't care.

Re: Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

#12

Post by Permit »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #11
tikhonj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is that the Microsoft store will be the only way to get software on Windows 8 Rt. Microsoft is essentially pulling an Apple and there is no way that is a net benefit for Valve or the community in general. There are other problems with Windows 8, but I think the closed ARM version is a really big one.

Yeah but, Windows 8 itself is a train wreck. Seriously, who is going to upgrade to it? It's too different. Nobody is going to go out of their way to buy it, the only installs it will get is as OEM's on new hardware. And I bet even the OEMs will offer Windows 7 for as long as they can. I think if users _have_ to have something different they will seriously consider OSX and Linux. One is more polished on better hardwar…

>One is more polished on better hardware for people who have the money and want the best.

Is this at all true? If you spent an identical sum of money on a PC would you not get better hardware?

Re: Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

#14

Post by drostie »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #11
tikhonj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is that the Microsoft store will be the only way to get software on Windows 8 Rt. Microsoft is essentially pulling an Apple and there is no way that is a net benefit for Valve or the community in general. There are other problems with Windows 8, but I think the closed ARM version is a really big one.

Yeah but, Windows 8 itself is a train wreck. Seriously, who is going to upgrade to it? It's too different. Nobody is going to go out of their way to buy it, the only installs it will get is as OEM's on new hardware. And I bet even the OEMs will offer Windows 7 for as long as they can. I think if users _have_ to have something different they will seriously consider OSX and Linux. One is more polished on better hardwar…

I'd be hesitant to predict this sort of result. Vista was very weird for those of us used to XP, and was widely panned in a similar way as a train wreck -- but people started buying, certainly. Ubuntu's Unity desktop environment was new and surprising, but it seems to be holding up.

Comfort is only one of the huge driving factors in these sorts of scenarios. That Microsoft has given up the mantle of comfort in the name of pushing forward is probably a good thing. Had they stuck with comfort, I'd still have to support the nightmare that was IE5. ^_^ Now you see big companies turning to Apple in the hopes of not only seeming more urban and modern to the people they're recruiting, but also to hopefully keep a very standard set of features and UI: it is quite possible, if admittedly a little crazy-sounding, to imagine that in ten years or so the post-Jobs Apple will reverse places with the post-Gates Microsoft.

Ultimately, if you change others, and others change you, that is a building-block for love in the most general sense. The things that we are fanatical about are the programming languages that really changed our lives, the operating systems that we put in the effort to understand and master, the technologies which altered our workflows and our day-to-day living. Love is always transformative, and Microsoft was getting too stagnant to be loved. Only time can tell whether their present changes will bring back some of that fanaticism which is sorely lacking.

Re: Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

#15

Post by tammer »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #11
tikhonj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is that the Microsoft store will be the only way to get software on Windows 8 Rt. Microsoft is essentially pulling an Apple and there is no way that is a net benefit for Valve or the community in general. There are other problems with Windows 8, but I think the closed ARM version is a really big one.

Yeah but, Windows 8 itself is a train wreck. Seriously, who is going to upgrade to it? It's too different. Nobody is going to go out of their way to buy it, the only installs it will get is as OEM's on new hardware. And I bet even the OEMs will offer Windows 7 for as long as they can. I think if users _have_ to have something different they will seriously consider OSX and Linux. One is more polished on better hardwar…

As much as I wish this were true (I've been gunning for the MS downfall forever), I doubt it will be the case.

My (non-technical) girlfriend recently needed a reformat, so on a whim I installed the 8 RC to see what her reaction would be.

She loves it. It is, quite simply, the first Windows release that presents software in a friendly and usable way that allows the non-technical user to get just as much from a PC as they could from a Mac.

Difference drives the uptake of software, otherwise we'd still be on Windows 95. 8 is just as rock stable as 7, but faster, and with an interface that is more logical and easy to grasp. I see no reason why it won't be a huge success (besides some kind of major corporate-IT catastrophe).

Newell's comments are leveled at Microsoft's monopoly on software distribution for Windows RT, which may in fact cause a disruption much like the one he outlines. The consumer, however, will finally learn what the "flag button" on their keyboard is for.

Re: Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

#16

Post by jlgreco »

mattacular wrote: post #7

I think Newell has misjudged why Linux hasn't taken off as a personal computing platform. Sure, the lack of games doesn't help, but that is just the tip of the iceberg.

I suspect that if there is anyone in a position to research the problem and actually execute a solution, it is him. It's not like he's some kid who thinks tuxracer is the bee's knees.

Re: Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

#17

Post by MartinCron »

NoPiece wrote: post #10
vitno wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, most of my friends are CS majors, but if they aren't linux users already, the reason they always cite is the lack of support for games. What else is there for an end user?

I use a Mac as my main computer, but keep a PC just for games. I would love to use Linux on it and not have to pay for Windows. Is there another category of software that is as exclusive to windows as games? I can get everything else I need via web apps or OSX.

There are a lot of windows-only apps in the business world.

Re: Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

#18

Post by d5tryr »

MartinCron wrote: post #17
NoPiece wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a Mac as my main computer, but keep a PC just for games. I would love to use Linux on it and not have to pay for Windows. Is there another category of software that is as exclusive to windows as games? I can get everything else I need via web apps or OSX.

There are a lot of windows-only apps in the business world.

There are also a lot of apple-only apps in the business world.

And how many business apps are being built for windows right now, compared to the number that are being built of iOS and osX right now?

I guess that the latter has much more activity...

Re: Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

#19

Post by AJ007 »

bsphil wrote: post #5

I don't see the Windows 8 app store as a competitor to Steam though, in the same way that I don't see the Google Play store as a competitor to Steam. Steam already has a strong community knit directly into the gaming experience that I doubt Microsoft will be able to reproduce, if GFWL is any indication. And there's no way I'd pay a monthly fee like on Xbox Live. Hell, Origin isn't even that threatening to Steam, and…

If you've tried to use Games for Windows Live, it makes seppuku seems like an enjoyable thing to do after dinner.

The user experience of what should have been mission critical Microsoft products - from Windows Live for Games to Adcenter is horrible. Horrible to a degree that whoever is responsible for them either never cared or should have been left managing McDonalds. That's too bad.

Yes, nothing Microsoft has right now comes close to comparing with the Steam user experience. (EA's Steam copycat also sucks, Gamestop's purchase of Impulse leaves a lot of judgement questions as well.)

Re: Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux

#20

Post by ralfn »

bsphil wrote: post #5

I don't see the Windows 8 app store as a competitor to Steam though, in the same way that I don't see the Google Play store as a competitor to Steam. Steam already has a strong community knit directly into the gaming experience that I doubt Microsoft will be able to reproduce, if GFWL is any indication. And there's no way I'd pay a monthly fee like on Xbox Live. Hell, Origin isn't even that threatening to Steam, and…

Steam isnt allowed on Metro, nor can it sell metro based/integrated games.

And the low and midrange win8 devices are all going to be ARM/Metro only.

So, Steam on Windows has no future. Nor does origin. Welcome to the consolification of all consumer computing devices.

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