The most evil pattern is when application developers force users to install Docker to use their applications.
pretty sure based on this blog post if the app required you to run a VM, that would be much more evil
I don't like Docker or Podman
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Re: I don't like Docker or Podman
#12Posts where the author proclaims they don't even want to try and understand why something is the way it is just lose all credibility to me.
Re: I don't like Docker or Podman
#13The most evil pattern is when application developers force users to install Docker to use their applications.
Why? You can treat Dockerfile as documentation for the most part
Re: I don't like Docker or Podman
#14> I prefer to use virtual machines. They’re slower to set up, and start up a little slower too, but they’re convenient for me, and I understand them well. They also behave more like a real Linux system running on bare metal hardware than containers do. There are fewer limitations that get in my way.
> This blog post is not a request for you try to explain Docker, Podman, or containers to me, or for you to tell me how I can learn more about them. I am not interested.
Then I will simply tell you don't understand virtual machines well either, like you said you did. I was going to explain Podman to you, but I won't. I might not understand virtual machines well either FWIW, but I haven't claimed that I do.
For anyone else reading this, Podman has a nice, clean design, that unlike Docker is free from a required daemon or something like Docker Hub. However it can be tricky to use, because it gives you a choice between rootless and rootful as well as non-remote or remote. However, once you get going, it is quite likable, and it's quite impressive how powerful rootless containers are. I recommend trying them on Fedora or Rocky Linux with SELinux, and reading some articles. Here are a few:
- Podman rootless tutorial https://github.com/containers/podman/blob/main/docs/tutorial...
- With a socket activated container, you can have a container listen on a socket while having a --network of none https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/socket-activation-podman
- Using Buildah to build images in a rootless OpenShift container https://github.com/containers/buildah/blob/main/docs/tutoria...
Re: I don't like Docker or Podman
#15Podman beeing mostly compatible with docker was a wise choice. If you run rootless no way to break fw/network like docker can.
With podman in mind, one ought to try buildah and skopeo. Again, buildah can run Dockerfiles, but you are not constrained to the weird Dockerfile syntax.
Re: I don't like Docker or Podman
#16All of the author's complaints are correct, of course, but the question is simply whether the juice is worth the squeeze. For the most part, I think, it is.
Exactly
Re: I don't like Docker or Podman
#17> I prefer to use virtual machines...They also behave more like a real Linux system running on bare metal hardware than containers do.
People don't seem to be noting this here yet but if this is why you "prefer" a VM to a container, you dont really understand what containers are used for
Re: I don't like Docker or Podman
#18Re: I don't like Docker or Podman
#19You know, I don’t like it either. I don’t like the network config, or the way the commands work. But I do love the overlayfs, and the somewhat ease of documenting the installation.
I love orbstack however. Every container gets his own ip and host, no need to map ports.
It feels like the docker people didn’t really understand the complete network stack.
I kind of abused docker/orb stack to create easy adhoc chrooted containers. They let me just try out stuff, and they get shutdown when I’m not on there anymore. Check https://github.com/jrz/container-shell
Re: I don't like Docker or Podman
#20The most evil pattern is when application developers force users to install Docker to use their applications.
Forcing a software development dependency manager (e.g. pip, npm, etc) is even worse.