The “enshitification” applies to everything, as basic functionality is harder or almost impossible to improve features are added as a sales driver together with lower price points, as you can imagine corners needs to be cut as the metrics take in account sales AND profit. General public doesn’t take in account (they’ve driven to think that way) durability or repairability, they just pay a lease so cars have become disposable.
Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
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Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
#12This is also why all of the auto union are against electric cars. Some person working in their garage will no longer be able to work on cars and get a job as a mechanic/technician and instead will need to have the experience of an engineer. It's very similar to the horse/buggy and car arguments of years past.
Serious question: why would auto unions care whether people can work on their cars in their garage or not?
Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
#13Optimizing for cost, weight & performance often comes at the cost of repairability. Buyers compare cars on measurable statistics so they'll buy the one that is cheaper, faster etc.
Watch a Sandy Munro video and see the design details that get a lot of praise. The gigacasting is a nice example: great for performance and manufacturing, but bad for repair. Or, the car not having a separate floorpan and mounting the seats etc directly to the battery casing. Or the octovalve. These are great for everything except repairability.
Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
#14I have some faint hope that scout will go the other way: https://www.thedrive.com/news/scout-wants-to-build-evs-you-c...
Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
#15I was seriously considering buying an Ineos Grenadier because I wanted a nice, modern, safe solid axle 4x4 with decent towing capacity that'll last 50 years or so, but the complexity of that B57/58 and the ZF 8spd, let alone all the other electronic trash like parking sensors, lane sensors, etc scared me off. Theoretically I might be able to keep it running on that timescale with standalone controllers for the transmission and engine but the complexity is just too much. Also, plastic intake manifold? Lmao.
So I bought an 80 Series Toyota. It only gets 1mpg less than the Grenadier. 30 years, all that complexity, and we gained 1mpg.
I'm working on a 1HZ-T swap. So I'll have a 1 wire engine with a nice simple aftermarket transmission controller, and an exhaust brake. I should be getting around 20mpg hwy when that's done and 100k+mi from a set of brake pads. I'm confident I'll be able to keep this running for 50yr.
Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
#16The “enshitification” applies to everything, as basic functionality is harder or almost impossible to improve features are added as a sales driver together with lower price points, as you can imagine corners needs to be cut as the metrics take in account sales AND profit. General public doesn’t take in account (they’ve driven to think that way) durability or repairability, they just pay a lease so cars have become di…
This emphasis on leasing must be a short term fixation. Once companies move onto more mature generations of vehicles, the upgrade cycle will lengthen pushing more people toward ownership.
Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
#17This is also why all of the auto union are against electric cars. Some person working in their garage will no longer be able to work on cars and get a job as a mechanic/technician and instead will need to have the experience of an engineer. It's very similar to the horse/buggy and car arguments of years past.
Have you seen the inside of a modern ICE vehicle? You pretty much need trade school to become a qualified mechanic anyways. Additional, with trade school one can increase the amount they can get paid. They educate on all vehicle types too, not just ICE.
I have a modern diesel truck and a 1988 Land Cruiser. I’ve been a mechanic since I was 14 (farm tractors) and was a helicopter mechanic and crew chief in the marines, then a transmission mechanic on cars during college. I’ve got a mechanical engineering degree.
The Land Cruiser requires a lot more of my time working on it, but it’s a dream. I can fix something in a couple hours. The diesel, it’s a nightmare. Everything sucks working in it. Access is horrible, I end up having to jack into the CAN bus all the time, I spent a while with an oscilloscope plugged into it a month ago, and I’ve had to write my own software to interact with it.
Modern cars are more computer than car, and they are pushing more and more towards being fixed like them. I’d rather work on an electric car… what wears out? The cooling system? A bearing? Simple.
Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
#18This is also why all of the auto union are against electric cars. Some person working in their garage will no longer be able to work on cars and get a job as a mechanic/technician and instead will need to have the experience of an engineer. It's very similar to the horse/buggy and car arguments of years past.
are you advocating or critiquing? i can't tell.
OP is advocating for developing efficient systems that are also easy to maintain. It is a valid concern.
Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
#19The “enshitification” applies to everything, as basic functionality is harder or almost impossible to improve features are added as a sales driver together with lower price points, as you can imagine corners needs to be cut as the metrics take in account sales AND profit. General public doesn’t take in account (they’ve driven to think that way) durability or repairability, they just pay a lease so cars have become di…
This emphasis on leasing must be a short term fixation. Once companies move onto more mature generations of vehicles, the upgrade cycle will lengthen pushing more people toward ownership.
> This emphasis on leasing must be a short term fixation
It is an inevitable consequence of modern rabid capitalism. The 99.99% shall own nothing in our name, while the 0.001% enjoy their life on the rent every single one of us has to pay for the privilege of existing.
More and more of basic life necessities are gated away behind subscriptions (and yes, I am counting a basic computer with an office program suite as such), or they are rapidly depreciating assets, and what remains gets bought out by the rich in fire sales during economic crises (remember the "for sale / foreclosure" signs 2008ff?) - and the frequency of the latter has only increased.
Of course this all has an end game because eventually people will have no money left to even lease these things, but by then those who are in power and enjoying their life will be long gone.
Re: Over engineered cars are pushing technicians away
#20Transportation has a higher demand for reliability and maintainability than our entertainment devices.
Not every "innovation" is positive. A 2% efficiency gain with 300% maintenance cost and 25% lifespan is a major loss.
Let's act like responsible engineers here and remember what our job is. We are supposed to be creating tools with longevity & utility that improve welfare. We are not here to create toys and infotainment for people.
The tools are in our hands people. Quit placing blame on marketing, customers. Take responsibility for the control that you wield.