Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship

whitehouse.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 37 posts

Re: Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship

#11

Post by laristine »

gnulinux wrote: post #8
zephyrus1985 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it now doesn't apply for to parents that are here illegally. Not taking sides but just pointing the nuance

Did you read the executive order? It clearly states it also covers parents that are here legally through visas like H, F etc... It is not just about illegal immigration. E.g. if you work in the US on H and have a kid with a student on F visa, the kid will not be a US citizen going forward (starting in 30 days). I'd be curious to hear the argument that people legally working or studying here aren't "subject to jurisdi…

In any angle of view, those people are clearly subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

Re: Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship

#12

Post by laristine »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #10

Very few countries have birthright citizenship ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli ). I still find it to be a strange concept. It seems like in the US, birthright citizenship isn’t granted in the constitution or laws directly but was the result of a court ruling, which is extra strange. I’m not sure if this is the right way to go about it, but I think removing it is the right direction to have a sense of soverei…

The United States has a lot of unique traits that few other countries have (American exceptionalism), birthright citizenship being just one characteristic. I'd think an executive order is just testing the water, but to change it definitively requires a constitutional amendment.

Re: Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship

#15

Post by alanfranz »

gnulinux wrote: post #8
zephyrus1985 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it now doesn't apply for to parents that are here illegally. Not taking sides but just pointing the nuance

Did you read the executive order? It clearly states it also covers parents that are here legally through visas like H, F etc... It is not just about illegal immigration. E.g. if you work in the US on H and have a kid with a student on F visa, the kid will not be a US citizen going forward (starting in 30 days). I'd be curious to hear the argument that people legally working or studying here aren't "subject to jurisdi…

Not a US citizen here so I may miss some nuances.

I’d think the “tourist VISA” part makes sense after all.

The “work VISA” part is strange, as you say. If I’m on a 15 days business trip, could make sense. If on a multi-year H1B… well, it sucks.

Re: Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship

#17

Post by jeffbee »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #10

Very few countries have birthright citizenship ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli ). I still find it to be a strange concept. It seems like in the US, birthright citizenship isn’t granted in the constitution or laws directly but was the result of a court ruling, which is extra strange. I’m not sure if this is the right way to go about it, but I think removing it is the right direction to have a sense of soverei…

The 14th Amendment was a direct rebuttal of a court case: Dred Scott v. Sandford. Dred Scott ruled that Black people could not be citizens, because they were property not people, including a "free negro" because they descended from property. The Citizenship Clause intentionally rebuts the ruling. There is no other way to interpret the Clause.

Re: Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship

#19

Post by jeffbee »

declan_roberts wrote: post #5

Birthright citizenship is one of those things that I thought was with us since the beginning. Turns out I was wrong.

It basically was. The common law doctrine of citizenship by birth prevailed from the founding up to Dred Scott.

The reason it is uncommon worldwide is because nobody practices common law outside of the Anglophone former colonies and England itself. England had absolute birthright citizenship right up until Thatcher

Re: Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship

#20

Post by rvz »

laristine wrote: post #2

Trump issued an executive order ending birthright citizenship in America.

False. I would have agreed with you if this order also included ending it also for all "US Citizens" and "lawful permanent residents", but it does not.

Read it again and you can clearly see that it is for those who are *not born to permanent "US citizens" or "lawful permanent residents"*.

>>> (c) Nothing in this order shall be construed to affect the entitlement of other individuals, including children of lawful permanent residents, to obtain documentation of their United States citizenship.

Post reply on HN