Related https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42761648
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FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
11–20 of 212 posts
Re: FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
#12> Tamay from Epoch AI here. We made a mistake in not being more transparent about OpenAI's involvement. We were restricted from disclosing the partnership until around the time o3 launched, and in hindsight we should have negotiated harder for the ability to be transparent to the benchmark contributors as soon as possible. Our contract specifically prevented us from disclosing information about the funding source and…
>OpenAI has data access to much but not all of the dataset
Their head mathematician says they have the full dataset, except a holdout set which they're currently developing (i.e. doesn't exist yet):
https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1i4n0r5/commen...
Re: FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
#13“… we have a verbal agreement that these materials will not be used in model training”
Ha ha ha. Even written agreements are routinely violated as long as the potential upside > downside, and all you have is verbal agreement? And you didn’t disclose this?
At the time o3 was released I wrote “this is so impressive that it brings out the pessimist in me”[0], thinking perhaps they were routing API calls to human workers.
Now we see in reality I should’ve been more cynical, as they had access to the benchmark data but verbally agreed (wink wink) not to train on it.
[0: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=agnosticmantis#42476... ]
Re: FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
#14This don’t really matter much because if the models suck when it comes out evals mean nothing next time
Re: FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
#15A co-founder of Epoch left a note in the comments: > We acknowledge that OpenAI does have access to a large fraction of FrontierMath problems and solutions, with the exception of a unseen-by-OpenAI hold-out set that enables us to independently verify model capabilities. However, we have a verbal agreement that these materials will not be used in model training. Ouch. A verbal agreement. As the saying goes, those aren…
What's even more suspicious is that these tweets from Elliot Glazer indicate that they are still "developing" the hold-out set, even though elsewhere Epoch AI strongly implied this already existed: https://xcancel.com/ElliotGlazer/status/1880809468616950187
It seems to me that o3's 25% benchmark score is 100% data contamination.
Re: FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
#16I have been taking a course in AI policy and the O1 and the FrontierMath dataset has been an important mark for me to emphasize the world we are moving toward. It is incredibly sad to know about the conflict of interest here. However, those more knowledgeable, can you explain in plain words, does this revelation compromise OAI's claims regarding o3's performance on FrontierMath problems?
Re: FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
#17I have been taking a course in AI policy and the O1 and the FrontierMath dataset has been an important mark for me to emphasize the world we are moving toward. It is incredibly sad to know about the conflict of interest here. However, those more knowledgeable, can you explain in plain words, does this revelation compromise OAI's claims regarding o3's performance on FrontierMath problems?
They have an oral agreement that OpenAI won't use the benchmark in training. Which means first and foremost you have to consider the possibility that they broke that oral agreement and actually included the problems in the training set. Even if they didn't, the fact that they had the problems means they could have selectively chosen the training set data to specialize in solving that class of problem, while still technically keeping the verbal agreement.
So, yeah, the benchmark needs to be treated as essentially worthless at this point.
Re: FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
#18“… we have a verbal agreement that these materials will not be used in model training” Ha ha ha. Even written agreements are routinely violated as long as the potential upside > downside, and all you have is verbal agreement? And you didn’t disclose this? At the time o3 was released I wrote “this is so impressive that it brings out the pessimist in me”[0], thinking perhaps they were routing API calls to human workers…
OpenAI doesn't respect copyright so why would they let a verbal agreement get in the way of billion$
Re: FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
#19Its increasingly odd to see HN activity that assumes the premise: if the latest benchmark results involved a benchmark that can be shown to have any data that OpenAI could have accessed, then, the benchmark results were intentionally faked.
Last time this confused a bunch of people who didn't understand what test vs. train data meant and it resulted in a particular luminary complaining on Twitter, to much guffaws, how troubling the situation was.
Literally every comment currently, modulo [1] assumes this and then goes several steps more, and a majority are wildly misusing terms with precise meanings, explaining at least part of their confusion.
[1] modulo the one saying this is irrelevant because we'll know if it's bad when it comes out, which to be fair, if evaluated rationally, we know that doesn't help us narrowly with our suspicion FrontierMath benchmarks are all invalid because it trained on (most of) the solutions
Re: FrontierMath was funded by OpenAI
#20I have been taking a course in AI policy and the O1 and the FrontierMath dataset has been an important mark for me to emphasize the world we are moving toward. It is incredibly sad to know about the conflict of interest here. However, those more knowledgeable, can you explain in plain words, does this revelation compromise OAI's claims regarding o3's performance on FrontierMath problems?
It's worse than just an undeclared conflict of interest. They gave OpenAI all questions and solutions behind the scenes. It's hard to chalk this up to only naivete. This is a "sorry you caught me" moment.