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2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

antiblizzard.win

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Re: 2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

#11
post #4
post #2

Very interesting read. I don't play video games, but I do play online chess, and in online chess, there is a huge epidemic of cheating. Many cheaters are banned by chess.com. Some of these bans go unnoticed, but in other cases, the cheaters passionately insist that they were not cheating. And I don't believe them. In a minuscule number of cases, chess.com has been known to reverse a ban. But chess.com does not provid…

I had the interesting experience of being banned from a Call of Duty 4 server, back when the franchise still had servers. It happened like this: we were playing the game mode Sabotage, and it went into overtime. When this happens, the game shows the exact location of every player on the map to every other player and prevents respawns until there's nobody left on one team, at which point the other wins. In CoD you can…

Chess is obviously a game without hidden information in the game state, so cheating comes in one of two types on these online services:

1. There is no human player at all, just a bot playing the game (maybe being paid for by a user to boost their rank). This is likely detected by all the usual anti-bot heuristics that many web services have. Another option might be looking for statistical outliers on how highly player's moves correlate to open engines like Stockfish (this was the cause of a big cheating scandal in pro chess last year, if I remember right)

2. There is a human player, but they're just feeding the moves into an engine like stock fish and copying them out. Again, this is probably based on statistical correlations.

Here's the thing with any anti-cheat, the standard for a scientific paper is based on a P value indicating the likelihood of something being chance is about 5%. This is obviously way too high a threshold for anti-cheat, it would make 1 in 20 of your bans false bans. But the logic of an "acceptable" heuristic about lucky shots, or headshot rate, or blink stalker micro saving low hp units, or stockfish-correlated chess moves is part of basically all anti-cheat systems.

I'd guess they tune their thresholds to be something more like 1 in 1000, but after a point the way you reduce false bans for these things is to ban less, which given the high rate of actual cheating, is not desirable to the game companies. So if going from 1 in 1000 to 1 in 10000 requires halving the amount of bans you dish out, game companies are just not going to do that.

So then some CS drone has to answer the ticket about why the user was banned. They know that 999 of every 1000 tickets are lying, so they just automatically close it with no recourse. It's not worth the company's resources to make a recourse process. For PR purposes it's better to just pretend that isn't the case, and say there's no false positives. We've seen the PR reaction machine initially respond the same way when the "is something hooking the game process" checks detect all the Teamspeak overlay users and bans them all, until the sheer volume of affected people cause them to relent. So it's hard to believe that when they have statistical modelling based bans affecting much smaller numbers of people, they don't just steamroll them.

Heck, it's not anti-cheat, but I've had a copy of Red Alert 3 basically stolen by EA as they claimed my CD key was pirated (it wasn't, I bought it on Steam directly). Of course CS claimed infallibility, but it's made me be a lot more suspicious of other cases where CS claims infallibility.

But these games have millions of players, so 1 in 1000 is... quite a lot of people actually.

Re: 2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

#12
post #9
post #2

Very interesting read. I don't play video games, but I do play online chess, and in online chess, there is a huge epidemic of cheating. Many cheaters are banned by chess.com. Some of these bans go unnoticed, but in other cases, the cheaters passionately insist that they were not cheating. And I don't believe them. In a minuscule number of cases, chess.com has been known to reverse a ban. But chess.com does not provid…

Imagine if police could charge you with a crime, but refuse to show their evidence or explain how they believe you committed the crime, with the reasoning that "we must not provide details about our process, or evidence to show you committed the crime, to protect the integrity of our policing methods"

There is difference between putting you into a prison and denying you access to an online game.

Re: 2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

#13
post #11
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the interesting experience of being banned from a Call of Duty 4 server, back when the franchise still had servers. It happened like this: we were playing the game mode Sabotage, and it went into overtime. When this happens, the game shows the exact location of every player on the map to every other player and prevents respawns until there's nobody left on one team, at which point the other wins. In CoD you can…

Chess is obviously a game without hidden information in the game state, so cheating comes in one of two types on these online services: 1. There is no human player at all, just a bot playing the game (maybe being paid for by a user to boost their rank). This is likely detected by all the usual anti-bot heuristics that many web services have. Another option might be looking for statistical outliers on how highly playe…

> So then some CS drone has to answer the ticket about what I was banned. They know that 999 of every 1000 tickets are lying, so they just automatically close it with no recourse. It's not worth the company's resources to make a recourse process.

In other words, classic corporate greed. As for that 1 in 1000, they're making the product they paid for unusable, which should be illegal. I'm aware it's not in many jurisdictions as you're buying a license and what not, but it should be. In places with strong consumer protections like Germany or Australia, Activision could likely get fined over this kind of behavior.

Re: 2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

#14
post #7
post #5

Whilst it was an interesting read, it still doesn't quite state why they believed he was cheating and what methods are taken on deciding that. Without that it is impossible to make conclusions.

>Without that it is impossible to make conclusions. Conclusions about what? Whether he actually cheated or not? If there isn't enough evidence to tell someone is guilty or not, your conclusion should be "not guilty", not "it is impossible to make conclusions".

Without that it is impossible to make conclusions on whether anyone cheated.

I think we actually agree, although I would use not guilty in the court of law standard, whereby it means not enough evidence to convict, not in the not guilty == innocent way some use it.

Re: 2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

#15
post #8
post #5

Whilst it was an interesting read, it still doesn't quite state why they believed he was cheating and what methods are taken on deciding that. Without that it is impossible to make conclusions.

This is by design. Anti-cheat solutions are intended to be opaque. This also applies to bans from many online platforms. This needs to change, because their systems are not 100% accurate. They need to be able to prove that you cheated or broke ToS before they can ban you and effectively steal any money you've paid them.

I completely agree with you. These anti cheat systems, whether it is related to video games or university work or anything in life, need to be fully open and transparent otherwise as you say without understanding and proof of what you did wrong, there shouldn't be any ban or punishment. If they find you in breach of a contract, they should be required by law to prove how you broke the contract.

Re: 2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

#16
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if police could charge you with a crime, but refuse to show their evidence or explain how they believe you committed the crime, with the reasoning that "we must not provide details about our process, or evidence to show you committed the crime, to protect the integrity of our policing methods"

There is difference between putting you into a prison and denying you access to an online game.

Not really, when you consider the context of each situation. Being banned from an online game is a sort of localized "prison" within the context of the game.

It's called a "thought experiment"

Re: 2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

#17
post #16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is difference between putting you into a prison and denying you access to an online game.

Not really, when you consider the context of each situation. Being banned from an online game is a sort of localized "prison" within the context of the game. It's called a "thought experiment"

When you consider the contexts, you can also realize they are two different things that should be handled separately and in different ways.

Re: 2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

#19
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if police could charge you with a crime, but refuse to show their evidence or explain how they believe you committed the crime, with the reasoning that "we must not provide details about our process, or evidence to show you committed the crime, to protect the integrity of our policing methods"

There is difference between putting you into a prison and denying you access to an online game.

Presumably something was sacrificed to be able to have the game, usually money which is in turn acquired through sacrifice of one's time/life (a job).

In both cases, the victim is being deprived of time out of their life.

Re: 2-Year Call of Duty False Permanent Ban Reversed by Court Case

#20
post #5

Whilst it was an interesting read, it still doesn't quite state why they believed he was cheating and what methods are taken on deciding that. Without that it is impossible to make conclusions.

That's kind of the whole point. Activision wouldn't even explain to a judge in court why they ban people or how (if) they review bans. Therefore there's no way to prove yourself innocent.
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