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Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

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Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#11

Post by globular-toast »

RobotToaster wrote: post #7
jdietrich wrote: post #2

The proliferation of charity and community bookshops is substantially the product of tax policy. Commercial property is taxed at ~50% of the nominal rental value, but charities are substantially or wholly exempt from this tax. Importantly, this tax is owed regardless of whether the property is occupied; for a commercial landlord, it is therefore preferable to lease a unit to a charity at a peppercorn rent if the unit…

I don't see how encouraging charities can be seen as harmful? It would be good if it was extended to organisations like CIC however.

Too many charity shops is the sign of a "dead" high street in the UK. It's odd when you think about it because each charity shop is literally unique and you would think worth travelling for, as opposed to the chains that sell the same stuff everywhere. But that's just the way it is. There's a kind of snowball effect caused by too many charity shops that has been noted for decades.

Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#12

Post by IshKebab »

RobotToaster wrote: post #7
jdietrich wrote: post #2

The proliferation of charity and community bookshops is substantially the product of tax policy. Commercial property is taxed at ~50% of the nominal rental value, but charities are substantially or wholly exempt from this tax. Importantly, this tax is owed regardless of whether the property is occupied; for a commercial landlord, it is therefore preferable to lease a unit to a charity at a peppercorn rent if the unit…

I don't see how encouraging charities can be seen as harmful? It would be good if it was extended to organisations like CIC however.

It's unfair competition. Also nobody wants a high street filled with endless charity shops and poundlands.

Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#13

Post by RobotToaster »

IshKebab wrote: post #12
RobotToaster wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how encouraging charities can be seen as harmful? It would be good if it was extended to organisations like CIC however.

It's unfair competition. Also nobody wants a high street filled with endless charity shops and poundlands.

> It's unfair competition.

It's a charity, how is giving them an advantage over chains that put their profits into the pockets of billionaires a bad thing?

Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#14

Post by jeffwass »

bruce511 wrote: post #4

To be honest, I prefer charity shops to professional shops for 2nd hand books. That said, I still visit professional shops rather more than I should (it depends on the shop.) Of course charity shops are cheaper, that's part of the appeal, but I have more success in them because they are less discerning. Over the years I've acquired a LOT of books, so now I tend to limit myself more. Mostly I now collect science ficti…

Just curious what sorts of older books you find in the best condition.

Ie, even when buying a new book today I’d rather pay $1 or $2 more in price on good paper that won’t turn yellow in a few years, but it seems most publishers aim for the lowest common denominator on shitty paper.

I’ve had some general luck with hardbacks being more robust but it’s not always the case.

Just seeing if you had thoughts on book types or publishing houses with the best paper that has lasted over the years.

Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#15

Post by graemep »

RobotToaster wrote: post #13
IshKebab wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfair competition. Also nobody wants a high street filled with endless charity shops and poundlands.

> It's unfair competition. It's a charity, how is giving them an advantage over chains that put their profits into the pockets of billionaires a bad thing?

Secondhand bookshops are not usually owned by billionaires. Neither are the things charity shops sell in general.

There is a loss to customers because instead of knowledgeable owners, charity shops are run by volunteers of varying quality.

I know of one case (through a volunteer at a charity shop) in which someone threw out a book of 19th century prints because they "threw out all the old rubbish". That would not happen in a commercial shop. I think its less likely to happen now that there are charity bookshops that tend to take the more valuable books, but I would not say it never happens.

Most importantly, the ability to avoid paying rates reduces the incentive to let the shops out, reducing supply and raising rents. IN many cases owners would rather have empty premises than let at lower rents and removing a cost of doing so makes this more attractive. The higher rents this causes that give chains such a big advantage over the small businesses they have largely replaced.

Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#16

Post by jdietrich »

RobotToaster wrote: post #7
jdietrich wrote: post #2

The proliferation of charity and community bookshops is substantially the product of tax policy. Commercial property is taxed at ~50% of the nominal rental value, but charities are substantially or wholly exempt from this tax. Importantly, this tax is owed regardless of whether the property is occupied; for a commercial landlord, it is therefore preferable to lease a unit to a charity at a peppercorn rent if the unit…

I don't see how encouraging charities can be seen as harmful? It would be good if it was extended to organisations like CIC however.

It probably isn't good for the economy that large proportion of retailers are charity shops with very thin margins, despite the fact that they're being subsidised in terms of business rates and receive most of their stock and a lot of their labour for free. A charity shop is better than a vacant unit, but it generates very little value, even for the charity.

Local authorities want to see more diverse and vibrant high streets, but they're economically reliant on charity shops - local government collects and spends business rates, but central government funds the rates relief that charity shops receive. They simply can't afford to offer rate relief to other tenants who might use that space to build a more valuable business, because the tax system has distorted everyone's incentives.

In many towns, charity shops are visibly crowding out other kinds of retail. The relief for charities props up landlords and local authorities, taking away the urgency to reform the system and take steps towards a more sustainable future for declining high streets.

The new government are finally talking about fundamentally reforming the business rates system, but it's happening at least a decade later than it should have done.

https://www.cbi.org.uk/articles/the-path-to-business-rates-r...

Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#17

Post by CJefferson »

RobotToaster wrote: post #13
IshKebab wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfair competition. Also nobody wants a high street filled with endless charity shops and poundlands.

> It's unfair competition. It's a charity, how is giving them an advantage over chains that put their profits into the pockets of billionaires a bad thing?

The problem is in many small towns in the UK (like mine) the charity shops outnumbed the non-charity shops, and oftent he competitions isn't billionaires, it is locals who would like to start a coffee shop (for example), but can't compete against "multinational" charity shops.

Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#18

Post by bruce511 »

jeffwass wrote: post #14
bruce511 wrote: post #4

To be honest, I prefer charity shops to professional shops for 2nd hand books. That said, I still visit professional shops rather more than I should (it depends on the shop.) Of course charity shops are cheaper, that's part of the appeal, but I have more success in them because they are less discerning. Over the years I've acquired a LOT of books, so now I tend to limit myself more. Mostly I now collect science ficti…

Just curious what sorts of older books you find in the best condition. Ie, even when buying a new book today I’d rather pay $1 or $2 more in price on good paper that won’t turn yellow in a few years, but it seems most publishers aim for the lowest common denominator on shitty paper. I’ve had some general luck with hardbacks being more robust but it’s not always the case. Just seeing if you had thoughts on book types…

Nothing specific. Most everything printed that I have since circa 1980s is fine. I expect looking after them matters more than paper quality.

Thats mostly paperback novels.

Stuff that was printed cheap in the 30s and 40s (ie "pulp" fiction) is taking strain now - which is to be expected.

Books I got as a child seem yo be I fine condition, despite a lot of rough handling at my hands, and my kids hands.

Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#19

Post by bruce511 »

AntoniusBlock wrote: post #9
bruce511 wrote: post #4

To be honest, I prefer charity shops to professional shops for 2nd hand books. That said, I still visit professional shops rather more than I should (it depends on the shop.) Of course charity shops are cheaper, that's part of the appeal, but I have more success in them because they are less discerning. Over the years I've acquired a LOT of books, so now I tend to limit myself more. Mostly I now collect science ficti…

This is going to sound bad but another upside to charity shops is that often they misprice their books, so you can get some real bargains.

I'm not sure 'miss priced' is necessarily the case- I think they're priced to move, and obviously there's no cost-of-sales, so its a volume game.

Of course one can find truly valuable stuff, not just books, but I never have...

Re: Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report

#20

Post by selimthegrim »

onion2k wrote: post #8
jonathanoliver wrote: post #6

A.Z. Fell has a decent bookshop but when I called recently they said: "Fell's Bookshop. We probably don't have what you're looking for and we wouldn't sell it to you if we did."

It sounds like a real life Black Books.

It’s about as real.
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