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Note: while this is a 2019 article, the Getty Center has not burned during the 2025 Palisades fire.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0876669,-118.5930521,12z/dat...
It's also relevant because the Getty Center has been rather smug about how awesome their fire protection is.
Additional Context: The Getty Villa which is on the border of Malibu and Pacific Palisades was the structure that was threatened by fire directly. This article is about the Getty Center which lies in Brentwood and fires did not reach it. Center: 1200 Getty Center Drive, Los Angeles, CA 90049 Villa: 17985 Pacific Coast Highway, Pacific Palisades, CA 90272
The reason this article is likely appearing now is because the Getty Center proper is currently in a zone which is under evacuation orders: "The Getty Center, situated in Brentwood, draws 1.8 million visitors annually and houses hundreds of centuries-old art pieces from renowned artists such as Van Gogh, Rembrandt and Monet. But even though as of Saturday, the center was included in a mandatory evacuation zone as a r…
I guess it is too expensive to have a fm-200 based fire suppression system? They say they have sprinklers as a last resort but I’m guessing it would destroy most of the art if you needed to use them.
Did some googling, and from what I can find, there’s one fm-200 based museum suppression system in Cincinnati - which is also the home of Proctor and Gamble, a manufacturer of Hydrofluorocarbons. I’m guessing there’s a pretty good reason no one put these in museums/ they tried and they didn’t work. I tend to think of property insurance companies having goals that are the most “morally aligned” with the goals of civil…
Gaseous fire suppression systems have numerous requirements that make them unsuited for a large publicly accessible space. There's oxygen displacement; most of them are "nontoxic" to breathe but still displace oxygen, so you have to have various measures to keep from killing people - that could range from delayed discharge up to SCBA stations (and staff training, maintenance, etc.)
The other problem is that you need sufficient concentration of the agent; the concentration varies, and some need higher concentrations (and better sealing) than others. That means quite a lot of work if the space/building wasn't built with it in mind. Even for a relatively small and simple server room, gaseous fire suppression installation is expensive and a general pain in the ass.
The systems are intended for spaces that aren't normally occupied. Vaults/storage for example, and industrial spaces (electrical substations, for example.)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason this article is likely appearing now is because the Getty Center proper is currently in a zone which is under evacuation orders: "The Getty Center, situated in Brentwood, draws 1.8 million visitors annually and houses hundreds of centuries-old art pieces from renowned artists such as Van Gogh, Rembrandt and Monet. But even though as of Saturday, the center was included in a mandatory evacuation zone as a r…
Will it remain the safest place if there are no people left on-site to staff the fire-protection mechanisms because of a mandatory evacuation order?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did some googling, and from what I can find, there’s one fm-200 based museum suppression system in Cincinnati - which is also the home of Proctor and Gamble, a manufacturer of Hydrofluorocarbons. I’m guessing there’s a pretty good reason no one put these in museums/ they tried and they didn’t work. I tend to think of property insurance companies having goals that are the most “morally aligned” with the goals of civil…
FM200 is not the only system available - Inergen, Novec 1230, CO2, etc (nobody has used Halon in ages if they can avoid it, as it's toxic.) Gaseous fire suppression systems have numerous requirements that make them unsuited for a large publicly accessible space. There's oxygen displacement; most of them are "nontoxic" to breathe but still displace oxygen, so you have to have various measures to keep from killing peop…
The vast majority of fire suppression events I've heard of (in a DC or similar environment) are unintentional, meaning the halon wouldn't be toxic (according to my potentially flawed memory).
Certainly, if there's been a legit fire suppression event, you wait for people with the hard-hats to clear the facility. Of course, you should do the same if there's been a no-fire suppression event, but ideally your fire suppression mechanism doesn't kill the people in the room needlessly...
Note: while this is a 2019 article, the Getty Center has not burned during the 2025 Palisades fire.
No, but it's been inside the evacuation area for a while: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0876669,-118.5930521,12z/dat... It's also relevant because the Getty Center has been rather smug about how awesome their fire protection is.
I think your "smug" comment is unwarranted. They put a ton of solid engineering thought, money and planning into protecting the center from fire. Nothing is 100% but I think their confidence is warranted.
Related, the Getty Villa right in the middle of the Palisades also put a lot of thought, planning and money into fire prevention, and despite being directly in the path of the Palisades firestorm, no structures on the Villa burned
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Will it remain the safest place if there are no people left on-site to staff the fire-protection mechanisms because of a mandatory evacuation order?
The Getty has an endowment in the billions and an entire team devoted to this that is permitted to be on site, coordinates with local fire and police services, etc. The entire center is also built into the hillside, with fireproof vaults in the underground levels, so there is no real risk to any of the collections.
Note: while this is a 2019 article, the Getty Center has not burned during the 2025 Palisades fire.
No, but it's been inside the evacuation area for a while: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0876669,-118.5930521,12z/dat... It's also relevant because the Getty Center has been rather smug about how awesome their fire protection is.
Even modest fire hardening would help. If a wood-frame house burns, it is a danger to all nearby houses. Hardening reduces the chain reaction potential.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Getty has an endowment in the billions and an entire team devoted to this that is permitted to be on site, coordinates with local fire and police services, etc. The entire center is also built into the hillside, with fireproof vaults in the underground levels, so there is no real risk to any of the collections.
If people evacuate before putting the art in the vaults, the vaults won't work. Remember the Titanic when the life boats left half full?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, but it's been inside the evacuation area for a while: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0876669,-118.5930521,12z/dat... It's also relevant because the Getty Center has been rather smug about how awesome their fire protection is.
> It's also relevant because the Getty Center has been rather smug about how awesome their fire protection is. I think your "smug" comment is unwarranted. They put a ton of solid engineering thought, money and planning into protecting the center from fire. Nothing is 100% but I think their confidence is warranted. Related, the Getty Villa right in the middle of the Palisades also put a lot of thought, planning and mo…
A "stone facade" doesn't stop +1200 degree temperatures, especially when everything on the outside will undergo incredible thermal expansion and at the least open up gaps. Steel expands about 1-2% for just an increase to 100 degrees C. 300C means about 3-4% expansion. And then there's the huge expanses of windows which will shatter or pop out - and even if they don't, the intense IR radiation will by and large go through them.
People don't realize just how insanely hot wildfires get. Go look at the pictures of neighborhoods that have burnt- they're leveled with the exception of some chimneys, steel girders for houses that have them (most these days don't, builders have been using wood-composite beams) iron fences, car bodies. Everything else is burned or melted.
There isn't a building in the world that will stop the megawatts of heat energy per square meter wildfires can generate in IR radiation.