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When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

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Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#11

Post by Jtsummers »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #8
Afforess wrote: post #3

Setting aside the moral component, and focusing on the economic; the Trump deportation plan is red carpet invitation for consolidation. Agriculture today is a declining mix of many medium and small growers, with a few mega growers that have increasingly concentrated their market share of output. Deportation will greatly accelerate this trend, consolidating most agriculture under a few mega growers. Small and medium s…

The Trump team has already stated they are limiting deportations to criminal illegals, so I guess just people who are in the US illegally and have committed a separate crime. This is before any real opposition has been mounted where it’s expected he’ll cave anyway. Trump is more likely to start a war with Iran than he is to do any sort of mass deportation. Also a weird thing is happening with automation, it’s getting…

> limiting deportations to criminal illegals

That's where they're intending to start (deporting those convicted of, possibly charged with, other crimes). Neither he nor his representatives have said that that's where they'll stop.

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#12

Post by nozzlegear »

ipnon wrote: post #2

This sounds quite sinister but it was a common summer job in Iowa for teenagers. You could make enough in a summer to buy a used car. Because of immigration these jobs are not really available for citizens anymore. I haven't heard of any teenagers taking this work in some time. You had to work long hours in the sun and heat but it was "an honest day's work."

> This sounds quite sinister but it was a common summer job in Iowa for teenagers. You could make enough in a summer to buy a used car.

Yeah, I got my first job working on a family dairy when I turned 14. It was tough work, especially having to wake up at 3:30am on the weekends to go work outside in negative temperatures over the winters. It did help me purchase my first car and other things that my friends either couldn't afford or had to have their parents buy for them.

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#13

Post by projectileboy »

ipnon wrote: post #2

This sounds quite sinister but it was a common summer job in Iowa for teenagers. You could make enough in a summer to buy a used car. Because of immigration these jobs are not really available for citizens anymore. I haven't heard of any teenagers taking this work in some time. You had to work long hours in the sun and heat but it was "an honest day's work."

I live in Minnesota. I hear what you’re saying, but I would say two things: in general, teenagers here are not being somehow denied farm work that they really want but is unavailable; and there’s a pretty big difference between Minnesota/Iowa summer heat and picking cantaloupes in inland California. The big difference being about 20 degrees on average, with more sun.

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#14

Post by xenospn »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #8
Afforess wrote: post #3

Setting aside the moral component, and focusing on the economic; the Trump deportation plan is red carpet invitation for consolidation. Agriculture today is a declining mix of many medium and small growers, with a few mega growers that have increasingly concentrated their market share of output. Deportation will greatly accelerate this trend, consolidating most agriculture under a few mega growers. Small and medium s…

The Trump team has already stated they are limiting deportations to criminal illegals, so I guess just people who are in the US illegally and have committed a separate crime. This is before any real opposition has been mounted where it’s expected he’ll cave anyway. Trump is more likely to start a war with Iran than he is to do any sort of mass deportation. Also a weird thing is happening with automation, it’s getting…

Aren’t these people being deported already? What’s new about this?

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#15

Post by adamrezich »

emidoots wrote: post #6
ipnon wrote: post #2

This sounds quite sinister but it was a common summer job in Iowa for teenagers. You could make enough in a summer to buy a used car. Because of immigration these jobs are not really available for citizens anymore. I haven't heard of any teenagers taking this work in some time. You had to work long hours in the sun and heat but it was "an honest day's work."

Teenagers young and older are definitely still working on fields here in the US[0], and also a good portion now work the processing facilities instead[1][2]. Whether it qualifies as 'an honest day's work' these days - or a cruel and punishing existence - I'll leave for you to decide. [0] https://youtu.be/41vETgarh_8?si=S0dBolFjv04SSprh&t=497 [1] https://www.npr.org/2023/09/25/1201524399/child-labor-perdue... [2] http…

[flagged]

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#16

Post by emidoots »

ipnon wrote: post #9
emidoots wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teenagers young and older are definitely still working on fields here in the US[0], and also a good portion now work the processing facilities instead[1][2]. Whether it qualifies as 'an honest day's work' these days - or a cruel and punishing existence - I'll leave for you to decide. [0] https://youtu.be/41vETgarh_8?si=S0dBolFjv04SSprh&t=497 [1] https://www.npr.org/2023/09/25/1201524399/child-labor-perdue... [2] http…

It's a good point. I'm speaking of high school who are allowed to legally work in the state of Iowa. If a 16 year old willfully employing themself in an entry level job is considered exploitative child labor to you, I don't know what to say. One sad effect of the changes in labor in the state is that only citizens are beholden to labor laws, whereas those working under the table are not. So it's true there is child l…

In Iowa, it is legal for (US citizen) children as young as the age of 12 to work on farms, for an unlimited number of hours, so long as their parents grant permission and they do not miss school. They have so far been unsuccessful at legislating to raise the age limit from 12 to 14[0] as the Children's Act for Responsible Employment act has failed to pass, due to strong opposition from agricultural industry groups.

Many of these children are pressured into it by parents who have no other financial options, as described in the video I linked above.

[0] https://www.iowapublicradio.org/news-from-npr/news-from-npr/...

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#18

Post by throwaway984393 »

ipnon wrote: post #2

This sounds quite sinister but it was a common summer job in Iowa for teenagers. You could make enough in a summer to buy a used car. Because of immigration these jobs are not really available for citizens anymore. I haven't heard of any teenagers taking this work in some time. You had to work long hours in the sun and heat but it was "an honest day's work."

The jobs are available for citizens. But they don't do them. And it's not because of immigration. Think about it for more than 5 seconds. They could just stop immigration for migrant workers and suddenly give citizens jobs. Every politician wants to be known as a job creator. But they don't. Why? There is not enough workers here. Proof? COVID. They stopped letting migrant workers in and farms failed left and right from lack of workers.

We weren't lacking teenagers. We were lacking a dirt cheap seasonal exploitable massive workforce. There are not enough teens even if we conscripted them all. And if you don't, teens don't like doing work. Most teens don't live in the sticks anymore. And (for teens) we care about these stupid things like safety, a minimum wage, and labor laws.

It's not 1950 anymore. The world has changed. The reason we need migrant workers is WalMart. Their demand for ever lower prices creates the need for the lowest priced highest supply scalable labor due to a global supply chain and pricing pressure. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Want cheap shit? Then you hire migrant workers. Or give up on farms and buy from overseas. Or make robots that can pick fruit. There's no free lunch.

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#19

Post by begueradj »

ipnon wrote: post #7
begueradj wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick look at the profiles of teenagers on TikTok, Instagram and OnlyFans make me believe they have the physical and mental strength and will to work long hours in the sun in maybe the most physically taxing work ever: farm work.

It's not that it's physically difficult. You don't have to lift very heavy or have much knowhow other than how to remove a husk from a corncob. But it's incredibly toilsome and boring. You get bussed out from your city or town for a few hours to the middle of nowhere. You bring a gallon of water and don your hat for shade. Then you trudge along endless rows of corn, husking and husking. The corn literally goes as far…

Quoted and copy/pasted:

"Health conditions occurring more frequently among farmers in comparison with non-farmers were hypertension and other cardiovascular disorders as well as ear-nose-throat (ENT) and orthopaedic problems."

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#20

Post by LAC-Tech »

is "Migrant" a euphemism here for "illegal migrant"?

If your business needs illegal labour, then it's not a viable business, and it should die. If your pay is so low that no one wants to do your work, why should you be able to break the law with impunity because your business can't compete? Innovate, or die.

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