This article seemed like it was talking in circles and I have a really hard time understanding wtf this guy was talking about. Then I saw the header that this was in part taken from conversations with AI and now I just think it’s AI slop. I’m kind of annoyed I read the whole thing.
Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
11–20 of 25 posts
Re: Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
#12In other words, up is up and down is down. Water is not wine. Reality doesn't come and go on the whims of a prayer halfway across the world.
Re: Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
#13There is this really useful word, immanence , that I wish were more widely known. Basically it means “focused on this world and human experience.” I learned this in A Secular Age , a fantastic book by the philosopher Charles Taylor. Basically the book is about how modern western society is increasingly immanent, focused on this reality and not on what is after life; e. g., heaven and hell, punishments and rewards aft…
"Reality" is such a loaded word. It assumes a lot: existence of something outside the observer; its durability and continuity; presence of other similar observers, who also sense the reality in "essentially the same" way, with a lot of problems in defining the "sameness"; the idea that the "objective reality" also still exists in absence of any observers. For the reality to be "objective", the observers also need to…
This is the real flaw with the positivist, scientific-dominant world view IMO. It obsesses over this external notion of objectivity while forgetting that human flourishing is (arguably) more important than merely accumulating information.
Re: Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
#14There is this really useful word, immanence , that I wish were more widely known. Basically it means “focused on this world and human experience.” I learned this in A Secular Age , a fantastic book by the philosopher Charles Taylor. Basically the book is about how modern western society is increasingly immanent, focused on this reality and not on what is after life; e. g., heaven and hell, punishments and rewards aft…
"Reality" is such a loaded word. It assumes a lot: existence of something outside the observer; its durability and continuity; presence of other similar observers, who also sense the reality in "essentially the same" way, with a lot of problems in defining the "sameness"; the idea that the "objective reality" also still exists in absence of any observers. For the reality to be "objective", the observers also need to…
The above works if you disregard that all observations of “physical reality”, any models, and the meta mode of attending to reality that leads you to structure your models in a particular way and choose which experiments to perform, are all a product of your mind and start treating physical models as gospel.
Natural science is about making predictions, not speaking truth. It offers models as a shortcut to predictions, but does not even claim to offer complete knowledge or “true” models. The territory is unknowable, all we have is maps, and all maps are wrong (physical models being a special case of maps). Natural science by design is not equipped to get us to any true reference points, and becomes remarkably useless as soon as our mind gets under the spotlight—though what it does do is provide us some useful maps (notably, “useful” as defined by our minds. You see the pattern).
It is a struggle to live a life given such uncertainty. We have options as to how to represent the territory, and so we go about it with varying degrees of rigour.
A seemingly popular approach of just taking the current models provided by natural sciences and using them as a proxy of truth does not score high on rigour in my opinion, since it strikes me as taking physics as a poor surrogate for religion.
Thus, I personally have no problem with spirituality, unless it flies in the face of observations and fails to offer sound philosophical reasoning. Like in physics models are shortcuts for predictions, spirituality/religion could be considered shortcuts for philosophy (with a degree of charitability, depending on the views one holds), and reducing philosophy to physics would degrade, not elevate it (after all, natural sciences came from and are subordinate to philosophy, not the other way around).
This is also why being a physicist and simultaneously a religious person (the case with many famous physicists) is not a contradiction.
Re: Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
#15There is this really useful word, immanence , that I wish were more widely known. Basically it means “focused on this world and human experience.” I learned this in A Secular Age , a fantastic book by the philosopher Charles Taylor. Basically the book is about how modern western society is increasingly immanent, focused on this reality and not on what is after life; e. g., heaven and hell, punishments and rewards aft…
"Reality" is such a loaded word. It assumes a lot: existence of something outside the observer; its durability and continuity; presence of other similar observers, who also sense the reality in "essentially the same" way, with a lot of problems in defining the "sameness"; the idea that the "objective reality" also still exists in absence of any observers. For the reality to be "objective", the observers also need to…
Re: Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
#16> This doesn't mean all experiences are pleasant. The worldly winds still blow harsh and cold. But secure attachment to reality means we can safely experience all of it. This is why challenging events often become crises of faith - they probe the very edges of our trust in existence itself.
Only we by virtue of extreme privilege can deign to pretend that this is real and only when we are young at that. It's a crisis because we are asking people to simultaneously come to grips with a world where they are both a special spiritual being personally loved by the creator of the universe and a fragile existence that can be snuffed out for no reason by a misplaced step or a gust of wind. Since the reality of our mortality is impossible to ignore one logically must doubt how special we really are.
> There is no prerequisite state we must achieve to earn the love of Reality/God. That love is already here, constantly available, needing only our remembrance.
Not even sure what this even means. Our gods to the extent that they exist are constructs that didn't exist before we are born and will only outlive us save to the extent that we manage to communicate these ideas to others. To be loved by god is merely to be loved by yourself no different than imagining our dead loved ones would be proud of us by virtue of emulating them in our own head.
Secure attachment to reality would be the erasure of these false idols.
> Consider the common experience of feeling "abandoned by God" during difficult times
This is simply understanding that we are in fact alone reliant upon ourselves and those who are close to us.
> The difference between becoming bitter and deepening in faith during times of challenge lies in our capacity to include the breakdown into our relationship with reality - and through this inclusion, discover a more complete wholeness.
Blaming yourself or blaming god are just two different ways to rationalize a delusion. If we continue to believe in god but simultaneously blame him this is obviously a more problematic path as we have no power to reform god.
> This reveals a surprising truth about both spiritual development and psychological growth: what appears as falling apart might actually be falling together. What feels like losing our religion might be faith deepening its roots. What seems like a crisis of connection might be an invitation into more authentic relationship with reality itself.
This sounds like Stockholm syndrome
> When we grasp this truth, we can approach both our own development and that of others with deeper compassion and wisdom. We begin to understand that the path to greater spiritual security might lead us through periods of apparent insecurity
When we believe in crazy baloney by definition no proof is ever given and many counterexamples are readily available so anyone with a functional brain will ultimately experience doubt. When we socially prove that doubt is normal and expected but not a reason for fundamental re-evaluation of norms by virtue of people both adjacent and above us in a social hierarchy "triumphing" over doubt we collectively grant permission to dismiss these troubling thoughts and continue believing in crazy.
The entire piece could be profitably shortened to the sentence that intellectual, emotional, or spiritual growth requires one to be secure in one's self, and in the acceptance of one's self and support of peers and betters in order to move forward from the stable base of self.
Re: Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
#17There is this really useful word, immanence , that I wish were more widely known. Basically it means “focused on this world and human experience.” I learned this in A Secular Age , a fantastic book by the philosopher Charles Taylor. Basically the book is about how modern western society is increasingly immanent, focused on this reality and not on what is after life; e. g., heaven and hell, punishments and rewards aft…
My extended family has protestants, Catholics, ex-chatholics, atheist and then my father. One of his parents was atheist and the other descended from a long line of quakers and catholics. Around my late teens I finally asked what his thoughts were on the subject. His reply was something like, "let me know when it helps in any real meaningful/tangible way to provide for the family; then I will think about it and let you know." He never spoke anything on the subject, as if it didn't exist. Not against it, not for it, not even a curiosity. He is also the type that worked 2 jobs while also starting his own business that drained money for some years before providing a comfortable living. I would not say that he was at all in "a denial of reality". Quite the opposite.
Personally, I think the thing beyond the bounds of human experience is science waiting to be discovered. I have always found it fascinated that other animals have differing zones or frequencies of senses. How there are sounds we can not hear, colors we can not see but other creatures can. There is a whole world within our world that we can't always directly experience or when we do, we don't always have a way to link it to measurable things; yet it is still there. We should be spending more time discovering the reality just beyond our senses, or at least building that curiosity in the next generation to pursue instead of focusing on fairy-tale magical explanations.
Re: Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
#18There is this really useful word, immanence , that I wish were more widely known. Basically it means “focused on this world and human experience.” I learned this in A Secular Age , a fantastic book by the philosopher Charles Taylor. Basically the book is about how modern western society is increasingly immanent, focused on this reality and not on what is after life; e. g., heaven and hell, punishments and rewards aft…
> It seems to me that there quite likely is something beyond the bounds of human experience, but we aren’t quite sure what it is. ... Simply denying existence outside of human frames seems like a denial of reality. My extended family has protestants, Catholics, ex-chatholics, atheist and then my father. One of his parents was atheist and the other descended from a long line of quakers and catholics. Around my late te…
Not everyone is curious about ultimate questions like these. That’s fine, but for those of us that are curious, they are very important questions indeed.
Re: Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
#19There is this really useful word, immanence , that I wish were more widely known. Basically it means “focused on this world and human experience.” I learned this in A Secular Age , a fantastic book by the philosopher Charles Taylor. Basically the book is about how modern western society is increasingly immanent, focused on this reality and not on what is after life; e. g., heaven and hell, punishments and rewards aft…
This misses something about western society, though—it prioritizes immanence but in a way that fails to ever attain it. If you consider a Citizen-Kane type of person who accumulates wealth and fame: the underlying emotional need behind all that accumulation is for love and connection in the present, which if it were attained, would have this character of immanence. Wealth-accumulation is instrumental towards that goal, but Western culture makes it an end in itself. We wind up continuously striving after that "connection in the present" but go searching in the wrong direction, getting trapped on the plane of ideas and vanities and other-peoples'-expectations. But this only bars the way to the actual thing we want. It's a "metric becoming a goal", and therefore moves away from the actual goal.
The linked blog post I think is expressing something along these lines: "our longings, even those that appear mundane or materialistic, often mask attempts to recreate that sense of secure attachment". What's needed instead is an openness to reality, and in particular some way of reckoning with the feeling of the finiteness of one's life, compared to the seeming endlessness of the realm of ideas. (You'll die, but ideas are forever.) And the post rightly emphasizes "safety" as the essential thing.
This is I think what is meant by "we are loved precisely in the midst of our most profound insecurities - this is what it means to stand naked before God." While that God-language might describe what it actually feels like, it strikes me as misleading from the perspective of a person outside that state of existence, who would not know what to turn their attention to.
Re: Spirituality Is Secure Attachment with Reality
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It seems to me that there quite likely is something beyond the bounds of human experience, but we aren’t quite sure what it is. ... Simply denying existence outside of human frames seems like a denial of reality. My extended family has protestants, Catholics, ex-chatholics, atheist and then my father. One of his parents was atheist and the other descended from a long line of quakers and catholics. Around my late te…
By “denial of reality” I am referring to the totality of existence. Not the reality of working a job and paying for things. Not everyone is curious about ultimate questions like these. That’s fine, but for those of us that are curious, they are very important questions indeed.
I bring up my experience, because who measures that (the totality of existence)? There was no denial from him, because from his view point that was the totality of existence.