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The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

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Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#11

Post by jnwatson »

benreesman wrote: post #3

Vigilantism and violence is not merited because scope remains for negotiation and compromise and peaceful resolution. At some level of oppression violence is obviously indicated. The whole of the current Western order is premised on that. At some point it’s too far. Today is not that day.

The US political system is at all time low of responsiveness to the needs of its citizens. Congress has been dysfunctional longer than Mangione has been alive.

It makes sense that a young man would lash out this way. Violence should indeed be the last resort, and for many folks the alternatives are dwindling.

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#12

Post by lowbloodsugar »

benreesman wrote: post #3

Vigilantism and violence is not merited because scope remains for negotiation and compromise and peaceful resolution. At some level of oppression violence is obviously indicated. The whole of the current Western order is premised on that. At some point it’s too far. Today is not that day.

You seem to be working from some kind of principles like justice? Or fairness? We do not live in that world. I was just reading today another story in the Washington Post about how the US stole Native American children and many died.

The US isn’t a society governed by justice, fairness, or even the truth. The rich should be scared because so many support this “execution”.

Of course, they are way ahead, and Robin Hood’s merry supporters will find out that prince john has an army of mercenaries happy to take his coin.

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#13

Post by benreesman »

jnwatson wrote: post #11
benreesman wrote: post #3

Vigilantism and violence is not merited because scope remains for negotiation and compromise and peaceful resolution. At some level of oppression violence is obviously indicated. The whole of the current Western order is premised on that. At some point it’s too far. Today is not that day.

The US political system is at all time low of responsiveness to the needs of its citizens. Congress has been dysfunctional longer than Mangione has been alive. It makes sense that a young man would lash out this way. Violence should indeed be the last resort, and for many folks the alternatives are dwindling.

Let’s try everything we can before resorting to violence?

Once that starts, that’s a forest fire that burns in ways no one can control.

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#14

Post by isoprophlex »

stavros wrote: post #5
benreesman wrote: post #3

Vigilantism and violence is not merited because scope remains for negotiation and compromise and peaceful resolution. At some level of oppression violence is obviously indicated. The whole of the current Western order is premised on that. At some point it’s too far. Today is not that day.

> scope remains for negotiation and compromise and peaceful resolution I feel like the murderer wouldn't be so widely commended if that were true. Justice is what is supposed to prevent vigilantism, and apparently lots of people here felt that the murder was just.

Agreed, indeed: when the people feel that justice fails them, vigantilism takes its place.

We'd all do well to, in our rush to decry the murder itself, be mindful of the mistake of losing sight of the reason behind the massive support for Mangione's actions.

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#15

Post by asdefghyk »

Google reveals the CEO who died and other United Healthcare executive's are being investigated for insider trading, enriching themselves by many millions. (And conversely, others must have lost millions. ) Also being investigated for fraud.( I thought this may be possible cause for murder, but it appears not. )

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#16

Post by benreesman »

isoprophlex wrote: post #14
stavros wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> scope remains for negotiation and compromise and peaceful resolution I feel like the murderer wouldn't be so widely commended if that were true. Justice is what is supposed to prevent vigilantism, and apparently lots of people here felt that the murder was just.

Agreed, indeed: when the people feel that justice fails them, vigantilism takes its place. We'd all do well to, in our rush to decry the murder itself, be mindful of the mistake of losing sight of the reason behind the massive support for Mangione's actions.

Let’s also remember that outright war is a bridge that can be crossed by not uncrossed.

Measure twice and cut once on such things.

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#17

Post by [deleted] »

isoprophlex wrote: post #4

The article seems quite level-headed and thoughtful. That said, this jumps the gun: > The idea that trauma is passed down epigenetically is not only unscientific, it’s also un-agentic; if you believe your trauma is hardwired into your DNA, you’re prone to passively accept it rather than actively trying to overcome it. Recent research is pretty convincing that the "folk wisdom" of trauma being passed down to later gen…

[deleted]

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#18

Post by yetihehe »

benreesman wrote: post #3

Vigilantism and violence is not merited because scope remains for negotiation and compromise and peaceful resolution. At some level of oppression violence is obviously indicated. The whole of the current Western order is premised on that. At some point it’s too far. Today is not that day.

> At some point it’s too far. Today is not that day.

It's not a switch. When your level of oppression rises, the probability of violent acts increases. When the level is high enough, you have a sudden cascade of events releasing pent up anger, which we typically call a revolution. You can't predict the moment exactly. We don't have a revolution yet, but tensions are rising.

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#19

Post by janice1999 »

isoprophlex wrote: post #4

The article seems quite level-headed and thoughtful. That said, this jumps the gun: > The idea that trauma is passed down epigenetically is not only unscientific, it’s also un-agentic; if you believe your trauma is hardwired into your DNA, you’re prone to passively accept it rather than actively trying to overcome it. Recent research is pretty convincing that the "folk wisdom" of trauma being passed down to later gen…

There have been multiple studies on the descendants of Holocaust survivors looking at exactly this btw.

"Descendants of Holocaust Survivors Have Altered Stress Hormones": https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/descendants-of-ho...

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#20

Post by stavros »

benreesman wrote: post #16
isoprophlex wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, indeed: when the people feel that justice fails them, vigantilism takes its place. We'd all do well to, in our rush to decry the murder itself, be mindful of the mistake of losing sight of the reason behind the massive support for Mangione's actions.

Let’s also remember that outright war is a bridge that can be crossed by not uncrossed. Measure twice and cut once on such things.

One could argue we've measured many, many times.
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