Live data from Hacker News

A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

economist.com

11–20 of 144 posts

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#11
post #5

"There is no consensus on the main cause of this surge in violence" If I am not misunderstood, the consensus in Sweden and globally is that the situation is caused by lax immigration policies and taking in too many immigrants who have not been able to integrate to the society.

Is that based on any evidence? I'm not familiar enough with the situation to know what the causes are, but I am aware of the long long history of scapegoating immigrants for any and all problems, so I'm inherintly a bit skeptical of that assumption.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#12
post #5

"There is no consensus on the main cause of this surge in violence" If I am not misunderstood, the consensus in Sweden and globally is that the situation is caused by lax immigration policies and taking in too many immigrants who have not been able to integrate to the society.

[flagged]

Drug _consumption_ causes "drug related criminality?"

The evidence is quite strong that _prohibition_ causes criminality. Consumption in the absence of prohibition requires no illicit market or cartels.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#13
It sounds like this law will be used to target drug gangs and organized crime. Regardless, I don’t see how it can be applied without discriminating against minorities. I highly doubt the woman at the airport, who the article states was stopped for having expensive jewelry, was white and Swedish.

If the police stopped you on the street and asked how you were able to afford a MacBook or XYZ, would you be able to “prove” it?

This law is extremely asinine.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#14

Proceeds of crime law is fine if it is decided in a court with judicial oversight and legal representation.

It seems this is in between the civil forfeiture as it is applied in some places in the US (police seize mostly cash, immediately, regardless of any documentation the owner might show, and can keep it unless the owner goes to court and successfully argues for it back), and the unexplained wealth orders of the UK, which if I recall correctly involve needing to convince courts to approve the seizure first, involve a chance for documentation, and are primarily used for major properties. With this, it seems police can seize goods immediately, but have to return them unless they can convince the courts otherwise.

But, this is police seizing goods, and seemingly mostly small personal goods. How are people supposed to prove they acquired those lawfully on demand, immediately? While walking somewhere, can you provide documentation for how you acquired for all your clothes (yes, the photo apparently shows clothes being seized)? Your phone? Your laptop? Any jewellery, which might have been inherited?

And, if this is somehow to combat street violence, why is the only concrete example of a seizure given in the article of someone with a watch and cash at an airport? For that matter, if the person was carrying that much cash at an airport, presumably involving an international flight, how were already-present currency controls not applicable? If she declared the cash, that would have involved some documentation; did they seize it anyway? If she didn't declare the cash, surely it could already have been seized?

Or is this simply a matter of seizing possessions and arresting people who aren't read as being in the right class position to be carrying those possessions?

It all seems rather strangely incongruous.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#15
> The Oresund bridge between Denmark and Sweden, which opened in 2000, made illegal firearms and drugs easier to transfer.

> Ten years ago Sweden, with 10m people, had one of the lowest rates of gun violence and murder in Europe. It now has one of the highest

Is Denmark known for illegal firearms and drugs export? The way it's written it's almost blaming Denmark for its issues. And besides, wasn't that 20 years ago. Surely the illegal firearms and crime would have flooded right in, starting in 2000 until 2010. What happened 10 years ago that started this crime wave?

> law came into force allowing them to detain people flaunting ostentatious luxury goods

There is also no way this law won't be abused. Everyone is looking at US cops robbing people in plain daylight of cash and are horrified. Except, other countries' government officials which are getting very excited by such prospects, it seems: "We too, can rob people!"

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#16
post #9
post #5

"There is no consensus on the main cause of this surge in violence" If I am not misunderstood, the consensus in Sweden and globally is that the situation is caused by lax immigration policies and taking in too many immigrants who have not been able to integrate to the society.

Are you saying that the violence is caused by the immigrants directly or indirectly? I can’t say for Sweden but in the Texas immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than citizens[1]. There doesn’t seem to be a good source of data for the US as a whole. 1. https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-o...

The profile of the average Swedish immigrant is different than the average US one. Many EU countries have counted and have seen immigrants commit disproportionally more crime.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#17
post #9
post #5

"There is no consensus on the main cause of this surge in violence" If I am not misunderstood, the consensus in Sweden and globally is that the situation is caused by lax immigration policies and taking in too many immigrants who have not been able to integrate to the society.

Are you saying that the violence is caused by the immigrants directly or indirectly? I can’t say for Sweden but in the Texas immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than citizens[1]. There doesn’t seem to be a good source of data for the US as a whole. 1. https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-o...

To nitpick a bit.

That article is about _arrests_ not crimes committed.

Undocumented folk are arrested less frequently, but that doesn’t necessarily mean fewer crimes are committed.

It could just as likely be that undocumented folk probably live in areas with fewer police stations. Or that crimes caused by undocumented folk to other undocumented folk go unreported and don’t lead to arrests.

Unfortunately nothing is cut and dry when it comes to crime stats :(

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#18
post #9
post #5

"There is no consensus on the main cause of this surge in violence" If I am not misunderstood, the consensus in Sweden and globally is that the situation is caused by lax immigration policies and taking in too many immigrants who have not been able to integrate to the society.

Are you saying that the violence is caused by the immigrants directly or indirectly? I can’t say for Sweden but in the Texas immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than citizens[1]. There doesn’t seem to be a good source of data for the US as a whole. 1. https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-o...

The data suggests that immigrants to America have lower crime rates than Americans but European immigrants have higher crime rates than Europeans. This reflects the relative criminality of all four groups.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#19
post #9
post #5

"There is no consensus on the main cause of this surge in violence" If I am not misunderstood, the consensus in Sweden and globally is that the situation is caused by lax immigration policies and taking in too many immigrants who have not been able to integrate to the society.

Are you saying that the violence is caused by the immigrants directly or indirectly? I can’t say for Sweden but in the Texas immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than citizens[1]. There doesn’t seem to be a good source of data for the US as a whole. 1. https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-o...

It’s… difficult.

I live in Sweden and the issues of lack of integration are eerily similar to those that affect the UK (where I was born and raised 80s-10s); pockets of extremely isolated cultures living in essentially parallel societies.

First, migration is too inclusive and too exclusive of a term. For example it would exclude a second generation individual- and if we are suggesting that religion is an issue, those tend to be more radical than their migrant parents.

It would also include people who already have a job and then move to Sweden.

In the UK, second generation migrants are often more spoiled and act worse than their comparatively entrepreneurial and industrious parents.

Then, to conflate matters even further there’s the issue that these parallel societies typically are poorer than the middle-class areas of the host country; and a correlation between wealth and crime is really strong.

So, it’s too reductive to claim anything relating to migration here. It’s an impossible conversation, and filled with conflicting personas in data and it is therefore difficult to contextualise with statistics.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#20
post #5

"There is no consensus on the main cause of this surge in violence" If I am not misunderstood, the consensus in Sweden and globally is that the situation is caused by lax immigration policies and taking in too many immigrants who have not been able to integrate to the society.

This is the consensus. Not even left-wing parties are currently willing to openly condone mass immigration any more.
Post reply on HN