Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

fincen.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 45 posts

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#11

Post by insane_dreamer »

ilamont wrote: post #5
insane_dreamer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not big on reporting, but arguing that the report is burdensome for small businesses is laughable. The BFOI takes 5-10 min to complete.

For you and I and everyone else on HN, the report is indeed trivial. For many other small businesses, it is not. There are millions of businesses which still operate largely on paper invoices and registers. Owners can't understand the text of the BOI website or the technical requirements, which includes registering for Login.gov. Others are completely engrossed in their day to day operations and won't even hear about…

Do you know what the BFOI requires? I just filled one out this morning.

It's literally just the names and govID numbers of the beneficial owners. All the info you need is a picture of the driver's license for each owner. That's it. Not a single figure. No percentage of ownership or shares etc. Requires absolutely zero accounting.

Also, the website requires no login, lessening the burden. (Actually for a gov website I thought it was pretty well designed, with clear help/explanations, etc.)

Your accountant is souping it up.

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#12

Post by ilamont »

jdlshore wrote: post #7
ilamont wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For you and I and everyone else on HN, the report is indeed trivial. For many other small businesses, it is not. There are millions of businesses which still operate largely on paper invoices and registers. Owners can't understand the text of the BOI website or the technical requirements, which includes registering for Login.gov. Others are completely engrossed in their day to day operations and won't even hear about…

I just filled out the form. It’s very straightforward and doesn’t require registering for login.com. The bigger issue is knowing that it’s needed. I wouldn’t have known about it without seeing this post on HN.

I did too. I was required to register for login.gov.

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#13

Post by LorenPechtel »

jdlshore wrote: post #7
ilamont wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For you and I and everyone else on HN, the report is indeed trivial. For many other small businesses, it is not. There are millions of businesses which still operate largely on paper invoices and registers. Owners can't understand the text of the BOI website or the technical requirements, which includes registering for Login.gov. Others are completely engrossed in their day to day operations and won't even hear about…

I just filled out the form. It’s very straightforward and doesn’t require registering for login.com. The bigger issue is knowing that it’s needed. I wouldn’t have known about it without seeing this post on HN.

Yeah, this is the first I've heard of ownership information needing to be filed--but I don't have any LLCs to file for, anyway.

Reading what the AG said about it he seems to feel it's a major intrusion for the government to require identifying the owners. I think that's what this is about--exposing the shell corporations. And of course the people who are keeping dirty books won't like that.

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#14

Post by Artistry121 »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #3
ptliddle wrote: post #2

A Texas court just enacted a nationwide injunction on this. https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/nationwid...

I'm not big on reporting, but arguing that the report is burdensome for small businesses is laughable. The BFOI takes 5-10 min to complete.

I think you’re wrong. State, federal, local, speciality (food and alc), health, banking forms… as an entrepreneur there are already dozens of ways to screw up and miss something. Adding on extra things makes it easy to miss and adds on yet another burden.

How many forms how many times a year do we need to fill out to be able to be free commercially? Are you free if you can be fined and thrown in jail for not filling out paperwork?

It all adds up and doesn’t add any value.

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#15

Post by ilamont »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #6
ilamont wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For you and I and everyone else on HN, the report is indeed trivial. For many other small businesses, it is not. There are millions of businesses which still operate largely on paper invoices and registers. Owners can't understand the text of the BOI website or the technical requirements, which includes registering for Login.gov. Others are completely engrossed in their day to day operations and won't even hear about…

> There are millions of businesses which still operate largely on paper invoices and registers It was a really easy report to file. It was mostly about the ownership structure. A lot of scare tactics out there to make money, but filing it was just a few clicks and I had to get some info from my co-founder. I don't remember, but there's only like at most 10 screens and each is relatively short.

Tell it to my 70 year old stone mason who doesn't have a computer, uses his phone only for making calls, only issues paper invoices and estimates, and only takes paper checks.

Or the local restaurant owner from Guatemala in the nearest town who only takes cash, and has no mechanism for orders other than pointing at the menu or picking up the phone.

A fact that seems to be lost on many tech people in coastal cities is technology literacy is limited. A 2016 OECD skills survey laid out the problem with very deep data across developed countries:

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-matter_978926...

If you want a summary, this stat should stand out: "26% of adults were unable to use a computer"

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#16

Post by CharlieDigital »

ilamont wrote: post #15
CharlieDigital wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are millions of businesses which still operate largely on paper invoices and registers It was a really easy report to file. It was mostly about the ownership structure. A lot of scare tactics out there to make money, but filing it was just a few clicks and I had to get some info from my co-founder. I don't remember, but there's only like at most 10 screens and each is relatively short.

Tell it to my 70 year old stone mason who doesn't have a computer, uses his phone only for making calls, only issues paper invoices and estimates, and only takes paper checks. Or the local restaurant owner from Guatemala in the nearest town who only takes cash, and has no mechanism for orders other than pointing at the menu or picking up the phone. A fact that seems to be lost on many tech people in coastal cities is…

If you were a good Samaritan and actually concerned, you can literally sit down and finish this with them in a few minutes.

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#17

Post by bdangubic »

ilamont wrote: post #15
CharlieDigital wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are millions of businesses which still operate largely on paper invoices and registers It was a really easy report to file. It was mostly about the ownership structure. A lot of scare tactics out there to make money, but filing it was just a few clicks and I had to get some info from my co-founder. I don't remember, but there's only like at most 10 screens and each is relatively short.

Tell it to my 70 year old stone mason who doesn't have a computer, uses his phone only for making calls, only issues paper invoices and estimates, and only takes paper checks. Or the local restaurant owner from Guatemala in the nearest town who only takes cash, and has no mechanism for orders other than pointing at the menu or picking up the phone. A fact that seems to be lost on many tech people in coastal cities is…

you are 100% right... but "70 year old stone mason who doesn't have a computer" has to file taxes with the IRS. also "Or the local restaurant owner from Guatemala in the nearest town who only takes cash" also needs to file taxes with the IRS. this is as important of a thing as your Apr 15th deadline to file your returns. so this "low tech / no tech" really is a cop-out - if you are a business owner you have responsibilities or you'll get closed up or punished (or both) if you do not comply

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#18

Post by Cody-99 »

ilamont wrote: post #5
insane_dreamer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not big on reporting, but arguing that the report is burdensome for small businesses is laughable. The BFOI takes 5-10 min to complete.

For you and I and everyone else on HN, the report is indeed trivial. For many other small businesses, it is not. There are millions of businesses which still operate largely on paper invoices and registers. Owners can't understand the text of the BOI website or the technical requirements, which includes registering for Login.gov. Others are completely engrossed in their day to day operations and won't even hear about…

>For many other small businesses, it is not.

They manged to form an LLC but can't fill out an additional simple form? Come on man be for real.

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#19

Post by insane_dreamer »

ilamont wrote: post #15
CharlieDigital wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are millions of businesses which still operate largely on paper invoices and registers It was a really easy report to file. It was mostly about the ownership structure. A lot of scare tactics out there to make money, but filing it was just a few clicks and I had to get some info from my co-founder. I don't remember, but there's only like at most 10 screens and each is relatively short.

Tell it to my 70 year old stone mason who doesn't have a computer, uses his phone only for making calls, only issues paper invoices and estimates, and only takes paper checks. Or the local restaurant owner from Guatemala in the nearest town who only takes cash, and has no mechanism for orders other than pointing at the menu or picking up the phone. A fact that seems to be lost on many tech people in coastal cities is…

The BFOI isn't require for Sole Proprietorships which is probably the case with your stone mason and maybe the restaurant owner too.

If they know enough to register and report as an LLC or Corporation then they likely know enough to fill out this report.

I agree with you on the disparity in tech knowledge among small businesses. And probably they'll never hear about this report.

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#20

Post by insane_dreamer »

ilamont wrote: post #12
jdlshore wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just filled out the form. It’s very straightforward and doesn’t require registering for login.com. The bigger issue is knowing that it’s needed. I wouldn’t have known about it without seeing this post on HN.

I did too. I was required to register for login.gov.

you don't have to unless you want a FincenID; otherwise you can just upload your DL picture; I did it without any login
Post reply on HN