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93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

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Re: 93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

#11

Post by levkk »

qmarchi wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: Former Technical Solutions Engineer for GCP, aka Support for Customers. Also Former Engineer on YouTube Caching. To get it out of the way, I do not agree that it should've taken a journalist to get involved to have this situation solved. However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly rev…

Reddit works just fine. Where there is a will, there is a way. I do believe (without proof) that incentives for Google are misaligned here.

Re: 93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

#12

Post by qmarchi »

gooosle wrote: post #9
qmarchi wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: Former Technical Solutions Engineer for GCP, aka Support for Customers. Also Former Engineer on YouTube Caching. To get it out of the way, I do not agree that it should've taken a journalist to get involved to have this situation solved. However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly rev…

You start by not banning people for nothing.

Except for that you risk breaking laws in several jurisdictions if you don't. And you can't fall back to "manual" enforcement think of the massive capital of human resources you'd have to invest in to make it keep up with the upload rate of YouTube.

Re: 93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

#13

Post by fakedang »

qmarchi wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: Former Technical Solutions Engineer for GCP, aka Support for Customers. Also Former Engineer on YouTube Caching. To get it out of the way, I do not agree that it should've taken a journalist to get involved to have this situation solved. However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly rev…

Well for starters, cut the issues at source?

The article mentions that the channel was taken down because a hacker in the live Zoom meeting (being streamcast into YouTube) played porn. YouTube could have simply blocked that single YT video while retaining the rest of the channel.

If multiple instances of users hacking Zoom meetings came to light, Google could simply block Zoom from streamcasting videos into YouTube until they fixed their shit.

Re: 93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

#15

Post by vundercind »

qmarchi wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: Former Technical Solutions Engineer for GCP, aka Support for Customers. Also Former Engineer on YouTube Caching. To get it out of the way, I do not agree that it should've taken a journalist to get involved to have this situation solved. However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly rev…

> However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly revenue generating, across hundreds of different languages, in every conceivable location in the world.

One way: dollars.

Another way: don't provide services you can't support.

The only way it's actually going to happen, and when it does we'll shockingly find it was always possible and companies just didn't feel like doing it: regulation (which will just result in a mix of the first two options)

Re: 93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

#16

Post by criddell »

qmarchi wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: Former Technical Solutions Engineer for GCP, aka Support for Customers. Also Former Engineer on YouTube Caching. To get it out of the way, I do not agree that it should've taken a journalist to get involved to have this situation solved. However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly rev…

Do what Microsoft does (or at least used to do). Charge a fee for support and if the problem is due to a bug or poor online help, refund the fee.

The risk is of bad incentives when providing support becomes profitable...

Re: 93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

#17

Post by lolinder »

tossandthrow wrote: post #8
qmarchi wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: Former Technical Solutions Engineer for GCP, aka Support for Customers. Also Former Engineer on YouTube Caching. To get it out of the way, I do not agree that it should've taken a journalist to get involved to have this situation solved. However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly rev…

It is easy: Allocate the resources needed - hire more customer reps. This would cut into margins, but maybe it is not possible to run hyper scale companies only managed by a couple of engineers. And maybe we should not accept that profit seeking people want to do that anyways.

> This would cut into margins, but maybe it is not possible to run hyper scale companies only managed by a couple of engineers.

It wouldn't cut into margins, it would make YouTube wildly unprofitable, with no viable path to monetization that would ever pay for the support burden.

I realize that some on HN—it sounds like you included—are perfectly happy to argue that if a company can't provide human customer support to every one of their users then that company shouldn't exist, but most of YouTube's users would fervently disagree.

Re: 93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

#18

Post by sbarre »

ryandrake wrote: post #10
qmarchi wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: Former Technical Solutions Engineer for GCP, aka Support for Customers. Also Former Engineer on YouTube Caching. To get it out of the way, I do not agree that it should've taken a journalist to get involved to have this situation solved. However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly rev…

In this case, an entire channel was shut down (with no opportunity for appeal) on account of a single instance of someone zoom-bombing a live stream with pornography. Presumably the decision was entirely automated and there was no human in the loop. It doesn't matter how many users you have. This "solution" seems like swatting a fly with a nuclear weapon. Why not just take down the offending video until the user take…

Yeah it feels like there should be an escalating series of consequences for infractions..

It should have been pretty straightforward to establish a pattern (or lack of) around whether this was an intentionally abusive channel or a first-time offence.

But of course this costs money and takes time to build.

Re: 93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

#19

Post by some_random »

qmarchi wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: Former Technical Solutions Engineer for GCP, aka Support for Customers. Also Former Engineer on YouTube Caching. To get it out of the way, I do not agree that it should've taken a journalist to get involved to have this situation solved. However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly rev…

I agree completely that it's a really hard problem, but this isn't an unusual case in a non-english language. Accounts are going to be hacked all the time, and all the evidence should be easily available to verify the claim that an attacker uploaded the porn, not the original account holder. There are plenty of other platforms with monstrous support requirements and while none do it perfectly or maybe even well, the popular perception of Google is that they have a policy from on high to not even try. This is across all Google products by the way, ReLogic (developers of Terraria) were locked out of their gmail and canceled their Stadia port over it [1]. I was trying to find a specific story related to GCP, but all I keep running into is people complaining about support [2] [3] [4] These are especially bad because it's affecting customers who are contributing to a very high margin part of the business, and in some cases customers have a line item for the support. Obviously bad experiences get talked about orders of magnitude more than good ones, but Google really is well known for this.

[1] https://www.techspot.com/news/88563-re-logic-cancels-terrari...

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/googlecloud/comments/m3hi63/whats_g...

[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/googlecloud/comments/1ey0rx8/gcp_su...

[4] https://www.reddit.com/r/googlecloud/comments/owt679/how_doe...

Re: 93-year-old YouTuber back in business after being kicked off platform

#20

Post by qmarchi »

ryandrake wrote: post #10
qmarchi wrote: post #6

Disclaimer: Former Technical Solutions Engineer for GCP, aka Support for Customers. Also Former Engineer on YouTube Caching. To get it out of the way, I do not agree that it should've taken a journalist to get involved to have this situation solved. However, I'd like to prompt Hacker News with how would you handle receiving support requests from a product that has >2.7B users. Almost all of which are non-directly rev…

In this case, an entire channel was shut down (with no opportunity for appeal) on account of a single instance of someone zoom-bombing a live stream with pornography. Presumably the decision was entirely automated and there was no human in the loop. It doesn't matter how many users you have. This "solution" seems like swatting a fly with a nuclear weapon. Why not just take down the offending video until the user take…

One of the biggest things for events like this are: - Regulatory Restrictions, many jurisdictions have limit on how to treat accounts like this - Repeat behavior from others that have breached this segment of the ToS.

A good automation would be integrating something like what they already have for Music Copyright, where you can automatically trim the segments around the conflicting content.

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