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MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

sheldonbrown.com

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Re: MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

#11

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

choilive wrote: post #9
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can modern material science model this computationally, or does everything have to be observed experimentally? This kind of insane just-so recipe - are researchers just iterating on hundreds of thousands of different alloy compositions and production techniques or are there strong theoretical principles on which some of this can be derived?

Its been some time detached from the mat sci folks deeply involved in the space but its both. There is a bunch of theoretical underpinnings but ultimately a lot of throwing darts on the board as well.

Yeah. It depends a lot on the type of material, too. Conventional metal alloys -- like LPSO-Mg -- are the toughest to model. Too many variables. Ceramics and intermetallics are a lot easier to model in principle, but they can have surprising properties on an atomic level, and there's really no predictive method for that sort of thing. Modeling does get you pretty far with high-entropy alloys -- because to a substantial extent their properties hinge on how a bunch of different atoms might fit together randomly, and that's something that can be computationally predicted. A lot of the recent interest in HEAs is because they're relatively easy to model.

Re: MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

#12

Post by loeg »

Gualdrapo wrote: post #10
loeg wrote: post #5

It's interesting that trackies in the 70s were trying to reduce weight that much. I don't think it's perceived as especially advantageous these days. The high-ish end track bike I'm assembling now will be a little over 8 kg (almost 18 lb). We also race much bigger gears (typically 95-110 gear inches in mass start racing, bigger for sprinting) than mentioned in the article (72 gear inches). The position that is consid…

Not sure if you know about Merckx's bike for his hour record - they did many interesting modifications to it aiming to reduce its weight

Yeah, Sheldon mentions it in this article. I don't think those mods helped. Weight has no impact on sustained speed.

Re: MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

#13

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

twic wrote: post #7
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

> He ruled out magnesium, which is best per unit weight in compressive buckling but is brittle and difficult to extrude. There's a fascinating, and very new, class of nano-laminate magnesium alloys called Long Period Stacking-Ordered (LPSO) alloys. These are very lean -- the standard version is 97% Mg + 1% Zn + 2% Y -- and they have outstanding mechanical properties. At an equal weight, they're much stronger and stif…

There was a magnesium bike frame back in the '90s, made by Kirk: https://www.elmycycles.co.uk/m21b0s365p4804/1992-Kirk-Revolu... https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1279777-kirk-prec... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/magnesium-in-frame-to-... https://www.flickr.com/photos/11521783@N05/albums/7215764801... A friend had one. It cracked.

> It cracked.

> "Kirk Revolution cast magnesium"

Cast magnesium is really weak/brittle compared to forgings and extrusions. Its use was not a great design decision on Kirk's part. I suppose they could have wrapped the casting in carbon fiber or something like that, to give it extra bending strength and spread out loads that might cause fractures, but then it would get expensive.

Re: MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

#14

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

genter wrote: post #8
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

> He ruled out magnesium, which is best per unit weight in compressive buckling but is brittle and difficult to extrude. There's a fascinating, and very new, class of nano-laminate magnesium alloys called Long Period Stacking-Ordered (LPSO) alloys. These are very lean -- the standard version is 97% Mg + 1% Zn + 2% Y -- and they have outstanding mechanical properties. At an equal weight, they're much stronger and stif…

How would you fabricate a frame from extruded tubing? Welding would destroy the grain structure.

That looks like it's an active research problem: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266633092...

At a glance, though, the problem doesn't seem insurmountable. FSW appears to work.

Re: MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

#15

Post by le-mark »

genter wrote: post #8
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

> He ruled out magnesium, which is best per unit weight in compressive buckling but is brittle and difficult to extrude. There's a fascinating, and very new, class of nano-laminate magnesium alloys called Long Period Stacking-Ordered (LPSO) alloys. These are very lean -- the standard version is 97% Mg + 1% Zn + 2% Y -- and they have outstanding mechanical properties. At an equal weight, they're much stronger and stif…

How would you fabricate a frame from extruded tubing? Welding would destroy the grain structure.

Brazing has a long tradition in building bicycle frames.

Re: MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

#16

Post by alanbernstein »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

> He ruled out magnesium, which is best per unit weight in compressive buckling but is brittle and difficult to extrude. There's a fascinating, and very new, class of nano-laminate magnesium alloys called Long Period Stacking-Ordered (LPSO) alloys. These are very lean -- the standard version is 97% Mg + 1% Zn + 2% Y -- and they have outstanding mechanical properties. At an equal weight, they're much stronger and stif…

I learned about this company's magnesium frames recently: https://www.vaastbikes.com/company/

Re: MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

#17

Post by etrautmann »

genter wrote: post #8
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #3

> He ruled out magnesium, which is best per unit weight in compressive buckling but is brittle and difficult to extrude. There's a fascinating, and very new, class of nano-laminate magnesium alloys called Long Period Stacking-Ordered (LPSO) alloys. These are very lean -- the standard version is 97% Mg + 1% Zn + 2% Y -- and they have outstanding mechanical properties. At an equal weight, they're much stronger and stif…

How would you fabricate a frame from extruded tubing? Welding would destroy the grain structure.

Aren’t truck chassis increasingly made with epoxy or other adhesive bonds?

Re: MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

#18

Post by fnord77 »

I'm convinced titanium is a pretty optimal bike material. I hate aluminum frames, too stiff, some amount of flex makes a bike so much nicer. Hate carbon, too. Steel is nice.

I've have a lite ghisallo frame which I think was under 2lbs. The whole bike is under 15lbs and still manages to carry my 200lbs of weight.

Re: MIT Aluminum Bicycle Project 1974 (2016)

#20

Post by webnrrd2k »

xnx wrote: post #19

R.I.P. Sheldon Brown. I'm glad his pages still exist both as useful resource and as a time capsule of what the best of the old web looked like: useful, content rich, no ads, fast loading, stable urls.

I was at another OG-style web page [1] today, and thought the same thing. I found a Badger airbrush, a 155 Anthem [2], that I completely forget I had.

[1] https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/home

[2] https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/home

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