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Coinbase won Tornado Cash appeal

coindesk.com

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Re: Coinbase won Tornado Cash appeal

#11

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #7
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #3

It's a fair decision legally, but I'm really quite uncomfortable to see a large financial services company bragging that it defeated government regulatory efforts and its customers can now freely transact with a money laundering service.

>but I'm really quite uncomfortable to see a large financial services company bragging that it defeated government regulatory efforts and its customers can now freely transact with a money laundering service. You should, but not becuse of what you said but because it's selective application of the Law; for example this is still being upheld [0] as we speak and clearly innocent people are having their lives ruined for…

I don't think "selective" is really the right way to think about it. The people who wrote Tornado Cash remain in federal custody for money laundering, which I'm pretty confident they'll be convicted of. And anyone who uses the service to do money laundering would presumably be prosecuted as well, if the government can find them. Coinbase has just identified a regulatory loophole to prevent the service from being shut down.

(Is it possible to use Tornado Cash just for privacy? Sure, I guess, but I'm skeptical that many people do. The pooling mechanism makes it inconvenient to use for ordinary purposes with the pretty explicit purpose of helping money launderers.)

Re: Coinbase won Tornado Cash appeal

#12

Post by idiotsecant »

dehrmann wrote: post #9

It used to be that you buy crypto because you're either a true believer, you want to do something illegal and don't realize the blockchain is forever, or you think there's a greater fool. Between recent sanctions and protectionist policies springing up, I wonder if there's more merit to crypto being a viable way to move large amounts of money outside the traditional financial system. Gold prices spent the 90's in dec…

Is that not the same thing as being a true believer? I am a true believer (although the title is reductive to the point that you might as well just say cryptobro, it has the same connotations) partly because crypto enables transactions that governments need not approve of. A belief that a permissionless financial system is a positive thing is a big part of what makes someone a crypto 'true believer' I would think.

Re: Coinbase won Tornado Cash appeal

#13

Post by radicality »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #7
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #3

It's a fair decision legally, but I'm really quite uncomfortable to see a large financial services company bragging that it defeated government regulatory efforts and its customers can now freely transact with a money laundering service.

>but I'm really quite uncomfortable to see a large financial services company bragging that it defeated government regulatory efforts and its customers can now freely transact with a money laundering service. You should, but not becuse of what you said but because it's selective application of the Law; for example this is still being upheld [0] as we speak and clearly innocent people are having their lives ruined for…

What link is the [0] for, think it’s missing?

Re: Coinbase won Tornado Cash appeal

#14

Post by Melting_Harps »

radicality wrote: post #13
Melting_Harps wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I'm really quite uncomfortable to see a large financial services company bragging that it defeated government regulatory efforts and its customers can now freely transact with a money laundering service. You should, but not becuse of what you said but because it's selective application of the Law; for example this is still being upheld [0] as we speak and clearly innocent people are having their lives ruined for…

What link is the [0] for, think it’s missing?

Sorry, I had a call and had do work rather than pretend o work while on HN after I posted this on the day ahead of thanksgiving. :0

0: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/founders-and-ceo-crypto...

Re: Coinbase won Tornado Cash appeal

#15

Post by dehrmann »

idiotsecant wrote: post #12
dehrmann wrote: post #9

It used to be that you buy crypto because you're either a true believer, you want to do something illegal and don't realize the blockchain is forever, or you think there's a greater fool. Between recent sanctions and protectionist policies springing up, I wonder if there's more merit to crypto being a viable way to move large amounts of money outside the traditional financial system. Gold prices spent the 90's in dec…

Is that not the same thing as being a true believer? I am a true believer (although the title is reductive to the point that you might as well just say cryptobro, it has the same connotations) partly because crypto enables transactions that governments need not approve of. A belief that a permissionless financial system is a positive thing is a big part of what makes someone a crypto 'true believer' I would think.

There's a true belief in crypto ultimately being how transactions are conducted, and there's a speculation hypothesis that more isolation means more extragovernmental transactions. That may or may not mean a higher price for tokens. So many people are hodling right now that it's more like an asset than a currency, so it's hard to say what its value would be if it were actually used as a currency.

As long as people have an appreciation mindset, it'll never actually be used as a currency since there's a disincentive to spend it. The price might just do what it does, and people use it for international transactions that are quickly converted to local currency.

Re: Coinbase won Tornado Cash appeal

#16

Post by mrguyorama »

Boy I love the continued insistence in America that law should be based entirely on stupid, niche, completely made up technicalities instead of just accepting that laws are made for a purpose and that purpose should have just as much weight.

Glad that we will continue to live in a country where you only get rights if you can afford to construct an absurd business that abuses poorly thought out pedantry just to do the same thing that is explicitly illegal but "with computers so it's different".

Re: Coinbase won Tornado Cash appeal

#17

Post by orionsbelt »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #7
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #3

It's a fair decision legally, but I'm really quite uncomfortable to see a large financial services company bragging that it defeated government regulatory efforts and its customers can now freely transact with a money laundering service.

>but I'm really quite uncomfortable to see a large financial services company bragging that it defeated government regulatory efforts and its customers can now freely transact with a money laundering service. You should, but not becuse of what you said but because it's selective application of the Law; for example this is still being upheld [0] as we speak and clearly innocent people are having their lives ruined for…

What’s your issue with Armstrong? First I’ve heard anyone say he is despised?

Re: Coinbase won Tornado Cash appeal

#18

Post by Melting_Harps »

orionsbelt wrote: post #17
Melting_Harps wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I'm really quite uncomfortable to see a large financial services company bragging that it defeated government regulatory efforts and its customers can now freely transact with a money laundering service. You should, but not becuse of what you said but because it's selective application of the Law; for example this is still being upheld [0] as we speak and clearly innocent people are having their lives ruined for…

What’s your issue with Armstrong? First I’ve heard anyone say he is despised?

> What’s your issue with Armstrong? First I’ve heard anyone say he is despised?

The fact that I actually know what he has done since he and his Goldman Sachs cronies got involved, and leveraged thier SV connections to get backing to start coinbase which has been a constant thorn in our side ever since MTGX went down.

That people who admit to '[being] a fan of Elon and Twitter...' are oblivious to the constant gaslighting, scams, and derision he has inflicted within the bitcoin community isn't a shock, what is disappointing is how few critics there are of his for his actions.

He tried to scam noobs into thinking Bcash was Bitcoin on Coinbase during the USAF, that was the final nail in the coffin after a long history of reversing transactions and closing accounts etc... but as I said they hold an obscene amount of Bitcoin despite having been hostile towards Bitcoin and what it represents.

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