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Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

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Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#11

Post by that_guy_iain »

ripley12 wrote: post #9
that_guy_iain wrote: post #4

I'm really curious as to why they felt the need to work on improving performance.[1] Were people complaining it was too slow? Were the performance improvements just the benefit of refactoring they did for other reasons? Considering the build happens once during your build phase, taking under half a second doesn't seem like something I would even bother looking at. So it just jumps out to me, so I'm just curious. [1]…

I absolutely care about things that take hundreds of milliseconds for my builds. The faster I can build, the faster I can iteratively try new things things out. The goal should be to be able to see changes instantly after you make them, and Tailwind is usually just 1 part of a build pipeline. Bret Victor's Inventing on Principle is probably the best demonstration of why this matters; in the first 10 minutes he shows…

> I absolutely care about things that take hundreds of milliseconds for my builds. The faster I can build, the faster I can iteratively try new things things out. The goal should be to be able to see changes instantly after you make them, and Tailwind is usually just 1 part of a build pipeline.

When we're talking about ms the build is not the thing that is affecting your ability to try new things out. It was already so fast it was near instant.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#12

Post by asimpletune »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #4

I'm really curious as to why they felt the need to work on improving performance.[1] Were people complaining it was too slow? Were the performance improvements just the benefit of refactoring they did for other reasons? Considering the build happens once during your build phase, taking under half a second doesn't seem like something I would even bother looking at. So it just jumps out to me, so I'm just curious. [1]…

Despite tailwind 3 being very fast there are situations where it can be a little slow and it adds up. I’m personally really glad they’re tackling performance in v4.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#13

Post by kevinsync »

atsjie wrote: post #6

They are switching from sRGB to OKLCH. First time I heard of OKLCH tbh. Anyone know if that is part of a wider adoption trend or is Tailwind pioneering here? Looking at the examples it does seem to offer some advantages; but was primarily surprised that they now use it as a default.

OKLCH is a curve that makes everything look nicer lol

https://abhisaha.com/blog/interactive-post-oklch-color-space...

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#14

Post by CharlesW »

atsjie wrote: post #6

They are switching from sRGB to OKLCH. First time I heard of OKLCH tbh. Anyone know if that is part of a wider adoption trend or is Tailwind pioneering here? Looking at the examples it does seem to offer some advantages; but was primarily surprised that they now use it as a default.

> Anyone know if that is part of a wider adoption trend or is Tailwind pioneering here?

It's part of a wider adoption trend. https://bottosson.github.io/posts/oklab/#oklab-implementatio...

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#15

Post by ripley12 »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #11
ripley12 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely care about things that take hundreds of milliseconds for my builds. The faster I can build, the faster I can iteratively try new things things out. The goal should be to be able to see changes instantly after you make them, and Tailwind is usually just 1 part of a build pipeline. Bret Victor's Inventing on Principle is probably the best demonstration of why this matters; in the first 10 minutes he shows…

> I absolutely care about things that take hundreds of milliseconds for my builds. The faster I can build, the faster I can iteratively try new things things out. The goal should be to be able to see changes instantly after you make them, and Tailwind is usually just 1 part of a build pipeline. When we're talking about ms the build is not the thing that is affecting your ability to try new things out. It was already…

1. Tailwind is just 1 part of a build system, and it all adds up

2. Watch Inventing on Principle if you haven't already. Pushing build times into milliseconds or sub-milliseconds enables new capabilities

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#16

Post by teaearlgraycold »

sodapopcan wrote: post #7
that_guy_iain wrote: post #4

I'm really curious as to why they felt the need to work on improving performance.[1] Were people complaining it was too slow? Were the performance improvements just the benefit of refactoring they did for other reasons? Considering the build happens once during your build phase, taking under half a second doesn't seem like something I would even bother looking at. So it just jumps out to me, so I'm just curious. [1]…

No idea if anyone was complaining, but if building in CI it shaves off some pennies (or more?) no?

Given its popularity this can actually get into measurable carbon emission savings. Not world changing. But maybe a few international flights over the lifespan.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#17

Post by joshdavham »

dcre wrote: post #10
that_guy_iain wrote: post #4

I'm really curious as to why they felt the need to work on improving performance.[1] Were people complaining it was too slow? Were the performance improvements just the benefit of refactoring they did for other reasons? Considering the build happens once during your build phase, taking under half a second doesn't seem like something I would even bother looking at. So it just jumps out to me, so I'm just curious. [1]…

I think a lot of the optimization work was for dev time and it carried over to build time. I listened to a podcast interview with Adam Wathan where I think he said they just got really into shaving nanoseconds. They have a very successful business and I think they just enjoyed doing this work. On the other hand I do think even if you’re cutting from 50ms to 5ms (both low numbers in absolute terms) there are often new…

> there are often new unforeseen workflows that become possible once you can do that operation so frequently that it’s free. You could do it on every keystroke.

That’s really interesting to think about actually! What kinds of practical things do you think could be enabled by an extremely fast tailwindcss?

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#18

Post by conradludgate »

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #3
seanwilson wrote: post #2

Tailwind threads usually include comments and questions that are answered in the documentation, so here's some useful links for people that haven't used Tailwind before. A core part of Tailwind is that you reuse styles by using a templating system vs using custom CSS classes e.g. you have a button.html file that contains the styling for your buttons for reuse, so you don't have to keep repeating the same utility clas…

I see tailwind as a new form of CSS built for the component age. It’s not a framework or design system.

I prefer scoped css, eg svelte or react with CSS modules. This allows one to closely pair the styles with the component, but still separate out the styling from the html (I cannot stand tailwind/inline syles)

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#19

Post by bryanrasmussen »

atsjie wrote: post #6

They are switching from sRGB to OKLCH. First time I heard of OKLCH tbh. Anyone know if that is part of a wider adoption trend or is Tailwind pioneering here? Looking at the examples it does seem to offer some advantages; but was primarily surprised that they now use it as a default.

OKLCH has the main advantage of LCH, which is that the numbers make sense, meaning that if you have two colors that are the same lightness they will look like they are the same lightness, because the numbers make sense you can now do programmatic color manipulation - increase lightness by 5 etc. that in the past would have been too difficult to really do (so people would instead just have variables giving the different rgb values and switch them in)

OKLCH just basically exists because there is a hue change from blue to purple in LCH when the lightness goes less which does not match how humans think of these colors (supposedly, don't know if there is any cultural difference)

So in OKLCH the lighter blue does not look purple like it does in LCH, it looks like lighter blue.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#20

Post by CGamesPlay »

atsjie wrote: post #6

They are switching from sRGB to OKLCH. First time I heard of OKLCH tbh. Anyone know if that is part of a wider adoption trend or is Tailwind pioneering here? Looking at the examples it does seem to offer some advantages; but was primarily surprised that they now use it as a default.

First, note that all colors in sRGB can be losslessly converted to OKLch (but not the other way around), so I don't know if this actually changes the colors or not.

The reason to use OKLch is so that when using CSS color mixing (via animations, gradients, etc), they look "better", as indicated by the sibling comments.

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