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Canada’s vanishing tech sector

theglobeandmail.com

11–20 of 121 posts

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#11
This article is depressingly spot on.

What worries me most is an inability to set Nortel aside in the ongoing historical narrative of tech in this country. The seemingly inevitable decline of RIM may well put us over a tipping point in this regard, putting us in a situation where we're so paralyzed as a nation by what's happened in the past that we can't bring ourselves to look to the now, much less to the future. We can't get over Nortel in the same way that we continue to look back at the Summit Series year after year after increasingly annoying year; adding RIM onto the pile of failed Canadian tech stories is going to make a mountain that will take decades for us to come to terms with, all the while distracting us from getting shit done.

As a country, if we continue to look to the past for lessons about how to build success, we're going to be building a country that is cribbing off the skeletons of failure. Sadly, looking towards the lessons of the past and staying in the shallow waters that result are very much a part of the Canadian way. I worry that we'll be spending so much time wringing our hands over Nortel and RIM (especially outside the sector, which is where most of the money comes from) that we'll be unable to spot the next big thing.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#13
post #4
post #3

The problem extends beyond financing. As even the article says, successful companies like Shopify are able to raise $$$ from the US. It's also a scale problem. Canada has has, by my count, four micro tech scenes (Waterloo, Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa). In a Country with such a small population, there really still isn't a "hub" for tech. With talent so dispersed (and much of it moving to the US as it is), it's hard to…

Indeed. Big companies like Microsoft and Google tend to snatch a good portion of highly skilled engineers, while most designers (product and visual) tend to head towards New York City or San Francisco for better growth and money.

True, when I graduated Waterloo CS in 2007, I remember a sizable portion of the coop board postings were from Google, MS, and RIM, about 20-40 postings each most terms. The pay in Silicon Valley was maybe 25-50% higher than Toronto/Montreal/Waterloo and the weather didn't suck.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown from Waterloo of how many postings are in the US vs Canada and how large the companies are. Sort of like a litmus test for the tech scene there.

I'm also surprised at the lack of news from the Waterloo incubator, especially on this site.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#14
»"Many Bay Street investment dealers have lost all interest in the sector, content with the flow of deals in mining and oil and gas."

This is indicative of Dutch disease, the process by which a country's natural sources drain investment from its human capital, producing a structural competitive disadvantage in the latter.

It usually manifests through resources firms pushing the exchange rate too high for manufacturing et al to compete. In a country with restricted and/or irregularly risk-averse capital supply, however, it could also arise as such, i.e. with limited capital seeking low-risk resources assets. This would imply regulatory constraints on Canada's capital markets.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#15
This is fairly true of pretty much every country except the US. Finland had Nokia, now in decline. Germany still has SAP but that's it. The UK has nothing large left, all sold abroad (last one was Autonomy). Most countries have never had a big tech company at all.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#16
post #5

As an individual Canadian entrepreneur, really your only course of action is to ignore the talk of doom and gloom and just get shit done. It does seem to be the reality, though, that beyond a certain stage the only way to get a good valuation is to work with American VCs.

I'm actually surprised that the article didn't touch on how the rules have been loosened so that American VCs can play in Canada a lot easier.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#17

This is fairly true of pretty much every country except the US. Finland had Nokia, now in decline. Germany still has SAP but that's it. The UK has nothing large left, all sold abroad (last one was Autonomy). Most countries have never had a big tech company at all.

You forgot another continent, Asia.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#18

This article is depressingly spot on. What worries me most is an inability to set Nortel aside in the ongoing historical narrative of tech in this country. The seemingly inevitable decline of RIM may well put us over a tipping point in this regard, putting us in a situation where we're so paralyzed as a nation by what's happened in the past that we can't bring ourselves to look to the now, much less to the future. We…

As a Canadian working to bootstrap his own startup, I'd have to agree with everything you and the article have said.

It'll be an interesting discussion point at next week's Startup Festival in Montreal.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#19
As one of those "early tech exit" Canadian entrepreneurs, this article really hits home for me. When I first started out I talked to several successful entrepreneurs who were living in Vancouver at the time and got some rather interesting advice. Paraphrasing: Move to the valley. There are too many reasons to be there. Don't be a patriot - and don't be a martyr.

Lack of critical mass in any of these "tech hubs", overall aversion to risk, lower paying jobs, and ease of moving to the valley are all cards stacked against you before you even start.

Many smart people realize that and they leave - critical mass is incredibly difficult to achieve when you're still bleeding all that talent. This is why having anchor tenants - large companies that draw talent in is so important. We can just never seem to have more than one at at time, and then they're mis-managed into oblivion.

Re: Canada’s vanishing tech sector

#20
I've been recently asking my Engineer friends about this very topic. I've always known that it's not the same as it was. I wish I was wrong. Quite a few have left the field, and others have left the country. I've been working in the high tech sector in Ottawa for 10 years now.

I started out working for (big surprise) a start up telecom company as a co-op student. I loved it. Then tried the government. I wanted to kill myself. So I tried hard to stay in the private sector. I got a job at Newbridge, which had just been acquired by Alcatel, a company from France. (Alcatel is now Alcatel-Lucent). I was there when they started laying off people. It was around 2001 when things started going south. The start up I worked for went bankrupt shortly after.

So now I was done school. Quite a few friends from different universities had gone south to Cisco, Nvidia, etc. Meanwhile, I tried to get into QNX, but then money became an issue for them and nothing materialized. Jobless, I waited and took anything I could get my hands on, including the dreaded Government, which turned out to be OK. I told myself I'd do this until things settle down and then I'd jump right back to the private sector.

Boy was I wrong. Most of the people, as mentioned in the article, were still put-off by the Nortel debacle. I knew people my senior, who had 20+ years of Engineering who couldn't get hired because they had too much experience. Pretty funny. They took off to the US, eventually returning to start their own company, but swearing never to work for a big corp again. They said the were tired of making other people rich.

In fact, they never really cared at that point to grow a company into a giant one. They just wanted enough to enjoy life. Management in the high tech had a sort of arrogance about them. Too much of a show off in my opinion.

And here we are years after Nortel sunk. Nortel was full of mismanagement. Quite the ego they had. They would have keg parties almost every Friday. Where the hell was the money coming from?!?

The tech sector had been saturated with Engineers and Comp Sci people with the promise of big money. A dime a dozen they were. Most didn't really have what it took, but they did it for the job. We all know that's not sustainable.

It's as though the Canadian high tech people need to go see a Psychologist. They're stuck like a sports team who just had a bad losing streak. They love looking and emulating the US in the aesthetics and show, but don't realize that there's more to it than that. I don't know, I shouldn't speak on behalf of an entire sector, I don't know that much. But something about how they went about things.

Needless to say, the risk taking and drive is no longer here because most of the people that had it aren't here either. And the ones that did remain, are still a bit jaded and don't want to play that game anymore. You need risk takers, and our society is not that anymore. We've all been scared into taking the safe route. This includes myself. Yup, I changed to a different position in the government (really, really boring - but I have a baby now) and at the moment, don't plan to leave. Maybe once the mortgage is paid off, and the kid is older I'll take risks again, but until then, I'm not willing to take a risk. Working for a corporation is silly to me because you have ZERO control. That may be one reason why there aren't going to be many RIMs or Nortels coming up in Canada. People don't trust large corps anymore, so the odds of building one isn't going to get any better.

My 2 cents on this issue. Hopefully I'm wrong and people with guts (not like me) will take some risks. Who knows what the future holds.

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