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The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

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Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#11

Post by CalRobert »

debacle wrote: post #8
CalRobert wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter has learned more arithmetic in 200 minutes with flash cards and a sticker board than in a year with her school’s tablets I think the goal is to give kids screens so they’ll quit bugging their teacher

Arithmetic is one of the places software excels. Fast Math is ubiquitous. Where do you think the friction for your daughter was?

The teacher ignored her and figured she was fine screwing around with the tablet. We also motivate her with good old fashioned bribery. It works!

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#12

Post by crimsoneer »

svieira wrote: post #9

The key point: > Seeing as the great majority of students spend over 80% of their digital device time using these tools to multitask, the automatic response for a great majority of students using these tools has become multitasking.. Unfortunately, when we attempt to employ digital devices for learning purposes, this primary function quickly bleeds into student behavior. > This is why, when using a computer for homew…

The interesting follow-up here... there is no reason these effects should be restricted to children. Like, if children can't learn with devices in a classroom, it suggests executives can't learn in an office (and might give a hint as to why we haven't seen expected productivity benefits driven by it).

But again, if the effect was this strong, I'd really expect to see broader evidence (even just at a national level based of digital uptake).

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#13

Post by Fin_Code »

What is missing in edtech is a concept of progress and partial correctness and guess work. The primary input in edtech is multiple choice. This is selected so a person does not need to evaluate the answer making it cheaper. But leads to kids guessing. Starting a blank line to write a response is what really kicks the brain in. There is no easy way out.

We could replicate the same blank page and grayscale human response to questions. But then we have not made a cheap factory that reduces costs. Its the typical fast, good, cheap conundrum. Everyone keeps picking cheap and getting mad when it does not work.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#14

Post by jansan »

Router-manufacturer should be mandated to implement a functionality that allows applying a whitelist filter for certain times of a day. It would have helped me a lot as a parent to make sure that my children can only access Desmos, online Office sites etc. while they are supposed to do their homework.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#15

Post by tivert »

I think people, and society in general, need to be a lot more careful about buying into hype, and prematurely adopting hyped tech.

Would you buy (or fly in) a "revolutionary" new jet, that (by the way) hasn't been tested, but it's makers are really hopeful it will be safe and perform better than other jets?

IMHO, changes in education need to be studied for at least ten years, then rolled out slowly with much more skeptical study. First you've got "balanced reading" that de-emphasized phonics and reduced literacy (but I'm sure resulted in massive textbook sales and prestige for a few education academics), and now you've got EdTech screens that have hurt students' learning (but probably made some VCs rich). Implementation's got to slow down until we actually are sure the shit actually works better.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#17

Post by cptaj »

donatj wrote: post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

This has also been my experience. Curriculum standards really put a stop to any radical changes in the way we structure the learning process.

I guess that IS the point of standards, but we really should be experimenting more on the fringes.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#18

Post by Fin_Code »

donatj wrote: post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

Customized skill based education should be the future.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#19

Post by vundercind »

WillAdams wrote: post #7

How much of this student screen time is spent on: - Khan Academy - playing games such as _Dragon Box_ (which teaches the principles of math and esp. algebra) - reading and using books such as: https://mathcs.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/elements.htm... https://www.motionmountain.net/ https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-elements-by-theodore-gray/... and at the elementary level texts such as: _Just Grandma & Me_ http…

> - playing games such as _Dragon Box_ (which teaches the principles of math and esp. algebra)

One of my kids got pretty damn good at Dragon Box in like... first grade, I think it was?

As far as I can tell this has had (years later) no effect on actually being able to understand algebra any better. The connection's not there. I can see why, too—doing it myself, it was sometimes hard for me to figure out how the various patterns of actions in the game connected to the mechanics of solving algebra problems, and that's with my already understanding that part pretty well. Even when it gets a little more explicit about which symbols are connected to what, later on, what actual mathematical operation or set of scribbles on paper does "drag this little box onto that other little box so it disappears" translate to?

My conclusion is it was good at making me feel like my kid was learning something, but not a great use of time for actually learning that. I think she got a ton more out of the couple times I sat down with her for five minutes to show her how something worked on paper, than hours and hours of Dragon Math.

This goes for other games that are supposed to teach place value and such, but make it really abstract and "fun". Maybe it's just my kids, but even when you point out that what they were doing perfectly well in the game is the same thing they're supposed to do on this worksheet for school, the presentation and mechanics are so different from "drag these colored blobs around" that the value the game provided was practically none. It didn't confer understanding, it taught a very specific kind of pattern recognition just for the game that the kids have trouble generalizing, same as Dragon Math.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#20

Post by throw_pm23 »

The teaching method I find best is a teacher explaining and writing with chalk on the blackboard, and the students taking handwritten notes on paper, asking whenever something is not clear. In other words, the most boring classical setup possible. Of course all the nuances and little details make all the difference: board picture, structure, teacher personality, pacing, choice of topic, interaction, motivation, excitement, etc.. It is not guaranteed to work, but as a format it is workable, and I found nothing so far that is better either as a student (long time ago) or as a prof at a top university (for some time now).

A distant second is the format we used during COVID: writing with a tablet using xournal, and streaming it via zoom (loosely like Khan academy). This is of course only my personal experience/opinion, but also informed by vast amounts of student feedback.

EDIT: I agree with the different perspectives from the responses, and should have qualified that I meant it for subjects one typically learns at a university, like calculus or linear algebra. One-on-one tutoring, self-learning can work even better or complement the above and skills, e.g. playing a musical instrument should be approached totally differently.

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