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Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

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Re: Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

#11

Post by PikachuEXE »

ta20240528 wrote: post #7
fxtentacle wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reading of the article was that African&Asian countries are upset because they 1. suffer the most from global warming and 2. currently aren't in any position to negotiate or enforce their rights Relevant quotes: "Counting dead bodies after a typhoon isn’t something any child should have to do." "Rich countries have failed to keep their $100 billion climate finance promise" "Rich countries continue to resist calls…

Is a citizen of a an African/Asian country, we're just pissed we can't live like the G7 folk do. Nothing more. You only have to observe how we behave once we get residence in EU/America/Australia and how quickly we forget our compatriots left behind. Don't fall for this faux outrage.

I remember listening to `Climate Justice | James Lindsay & Michael O'Fallon | Changing Tides Ep. 1` talking about this

https://youtu.be/1A8oyO9LoOo?list=PLZJe-MWy0cYc6g4XGnbAdenV4...

Re: Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

#13

Post by magicalhippo »

NotGMan wrote: post #12

[flagged]

If they really need to travel then they'll pay what it costs, same as anyone else.

And they have enough money to pay, as witnessed by the splurging. Heck, Musk is literally throwing millions of dollars into the wind these days.

Re: Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

#14

Post by olivergregory »

Arnt wrote: post #9
fxtentacle wrote: post #3

Their main demand seems pretty reasonable to me: "ban or punitively tax carbon-intensive luxury consumptions — starting with private jets and superyachts"

The problem is that it doesn't matter. Most of that those giant emissions are your daily commute etc. The aren't enough private jets to really make a dent compared to all the middle-class car drivers. Merely being a reasonable demand isn't enough to get a law or treaty. A good intention won't be enough, a likely significant effect is politically necessary.

It's not about the effectiveness: it's about the message.

Re: Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

#15

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

pingou wrote: post #6

"On average, a billionaire’s investment portfolio is almost twice as polluting as an investment in the S&P 500". That is very interesting. However, I don't think their investment should really count (or at least not totally) as their own co2 emissions. If they have shares in BP or Shell for example, the emissions of those two companies should be counted towards those who buy their products, in my opinion.

Agreed. I thought the comments about the private jets and yachts were fair, because those things emit so much carbon and solely for the pleasure/convenience of the billionaire. But throwing "investments" into the mix kind of ruined the message for me, because it's not like those companies are only servicing the billionaire.

Re: Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

#16

Post by freilanzer »

NotGMan wrote: post #12

[flagged]

> Yachts are obviously the issue here, NOT private jet planes.

Except they are as well, due to the volume of flights.

> If a billionare would use regular airplanes he would waste tons of his time.

Just like the rest of us.

> You want eg Elon Musk to waste a few weeks of his life each year waiting for a plane when he could be building stuff?

Yes. He does not build stuff, he pays people to build stuff.

Is this you, Elon?

Re: Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

#17

Post by freilanzer »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #2

> Reduce the emissions of the richest. Governments must introduce permanent income and wealth taxes on the top 1 percent, ban or punitively tax carbon-intensive luxury consumptions —starting with private jets and superyachts— and regulate corporations and investors to drastically and fairly reduce their emissions. If europeans are so upset about the emission of American private jets and yachts, don't grant landing/ov…

> If europeans are so upset about the emission of American private jets and yachts,

Americans should be, too.

Re: Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

#18

Post by openrisk »

Some billionaires will get touched by this report and will buy a country's worth of forest to become "carbon-neutral" /s

Seriously though, its not the absolute value of direct impact that matters here (or even the indirect via their investments) but the multiple negative messages that it sends to the billions of non-billionaires:

- that the burden of shifting towards sustainable living will not be felt and shared fairly

- that the pinnacle of "worldy success" means also not caring about your impact on the rest

While countless studies have looked at corporate and consumer responsibilities at macro level, the role of individual ownership much less so. Mostly the work of Chancel and Piketty

http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/ChancelPiketty2015.pdf

Re: Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

#19

Post by somedude895 »

So Oxfam is just a socialist think-tank now? These numbers make for a great headline, but they really don't mean anything. You could take every penny from every billionaire in the world today and it wouldn't really make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Millions of people being lifted from lower into middle-class is sure to be much worse for climate change. Poorer countries tend to not have the infrastructure to support a green power grid, and they generally need carbohydrates to industrialize.

In many countries the top 10% of earners tend to bankroll most government spending due to progressive taxation. If that income was distributed to the bottom 90%, the lower tax brackets would lead to much lower tax revenue in advanced economies, meaning that governments have less to spend on switching to green power sources and the infrastructure to support them.

But of course blaming the rich is a more comfortable truth for many, because covering up envy as a fight against injustice is killing two birds of morality with one stone.

Re: Billionaires emit more CO₂ in 90 minutes than most people do in a lifetime

#20

Post by sandworm101 »

Arnt wrote: post #9
fxtentacle wrote: post #3

Their main demand seems pretty reasonable to me: "ban or punitively tax carbon-intensive luxury consumptions — starting with private jets and superyachts"

The problem is that it doesn't matter. Most of that those giant emissions are your daily commute etc. The aren't enough private jets to really make a dent compared to all the middle-class car drivers. Merely being a reasonable demand isn't enough to get a law or treaty. A good intention won't be enough, a likely significant effect is politically necessary.

>> Most of that those giant emissions are your daily commute etc.

Daily commutes, even by IC car, are not the bulk of carbon emissions. Carbon emissions from all transport are only about 1/3 of total emissions, with commutes being a subset of that. The bulk of emissions, the other 2/3, are from non-transport things like electricity and food production. Installing some solar panels and not eating meat might be more effective than avoiding the daily commute.

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