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A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

tudelft.nl

11–20 of 61 posts

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#11
post #6

What is actually the usecase for "quantum internet"? Like at most i hear about quantum key distribution, but quite frankly the classical equivalents to that are just as good if not better, so what is the actual benefit?

There is no obvious benefit yet, they are just researching for the sake of it.

I think over time they will discover a benefit but the hype is obviously not warranted.

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#12
post #6

What is actually the usecase for "quantum internet"? Like at most i hear about quantum key distribution, but quite frankly the classical equivalents to that are just as good if not better, so what is the actual benefit?

I'd prefer @ziofill to answer, but I think: - security - if we use quantum entanglement/teleportation to the extent I've read about how it works, then even if you still need a fiber optic cable connecting the two parties, the data is unreadable if you're not looking at physically the same wave/photons, meaning that man in the middle attack (like the ones with bending an optic cable to break it's internal reflection)…

The first one helps with physical attacks on the wire. Not a common issue that people worry about, since there are so many boxes in between that are easier to compromise that it's rarely a significant security increase if you know the wire is perfectly secure.

The second is just wrong. It is well known and proven that it's impossible to send information via quantum entanglement. It's true that there are some interpretations of QM where the wave function of the entangled pair collapses instantly the moment one side of the pair is measured. But there is no version of QM where manipulating one side of the pair has any effect whatsoever on the other, except for measurement collapsing the quantum superposition into a random classical state.

The best classical intuition for how entanglement works is that two entangled particles are like two gloves from a pair. If you put them in boxes and separate them, when someone opens a box and finds the left glove, they instantly find out that the other person has the right glove. The difference with quantum entanglement is simply that the universe only decides which glove is which when you open the box, before that they are both in a mix of the states. This makes statistical properties measurably different if you send many pairs of gloves and look at how many times certain things match.

But there really is nothing that you can do with a pair of entangled particles that you couldn't do with the pair of gloves.

I should note for completeness that, because of the different statistical properties, there is a way to send slightly more information using entangled pairs than you can with classical particles. I believe you can send 1.5 bits of information per particle, but I don't remember the exact number. This means that a quantum internet could have higher throughput at the same transmit power, which would have some relevance for very long distance wireless communication, such as communicating with a space probe.

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#13
post #6

What is actually the usecase for "quantum internet"? Like at most i hear about quantum key distribution, but quite frankly the classical equivalents to that are just as good if not better, so what is the actual benefit?

I'd prefer @ziofill to answer, but I think: - security - if we use quantum entanglement/teleportation to the extent I've read about how it works, then even if you still need a fiber optic cable connecting the two parties, the data is unreadable if you're not looking at physically the same wave/photons, meaning that man in the middle attack (like the ones with bending an optic cable to break it's internal reflection)…

No, this does not work. You can both read the same random data (which can be used for generating encryption keys), but not transfer any data.

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#14
post #6

What is actually the usecase for "quantum internet"? Like at most i hear about quantum key distribution, but quite frankly the classical equivalents to that are just as good if not better, so what is the actual benefit?

I'd prefer @ziofill to answer, but I think: - security - if we use quantum entanglement/teleportation to the extent I've read about how it works, then even if you still need a fiber optic cable connecting the two parties, the data is unreadable if you're not looking at physically the same wave/photons, meaning that man in the middle attack (like the ones with bending an optic cable to break it's internal reflection)…

As far as In understand it (not very much) you can listen in on the transmitted keys, but the interaction can be statistically(!) measured and suspicious bits can me omitted (the wiki is quite comprehensible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_key_distribution?wprov...). There are different protocols, some more and some less quantum and most rely on classical, encrypted channels and trusted nodes in addition to the quantum channels.

One thing is for sure: you can’t send information faster than light with this or any other kind of quantum communication as two entangled qubits are basically two RNGs that are correlated. You’d just get noise without an additional classical, not FTL, data link (please, somebody with expertise: help!)

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#15
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer @ziofill to answer, but I think: - security - if we use quantum entanglement/teleportation to the extent I've read about how it works, then even if you still need a fiber optic cable connecting the two parties, the data is unreadable if you're not looking at physically the same wave/photons, meaning that man in the middle attack (like the ones with bending an optic cable to break it's internal reflection)…

As far as In understand it (not very much) you can listen in on the transmitted keys, but the interaction can be statistically(!) measured and suspicious bits can me omitted (the wiki is quite comprehensible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_key_distribution?wprov... ). There are different protocols, some more and some less quantum and most rely on classical, encrypted channels and trusted nodes in addition to t…

As far as I know, they still need classical encryption methods (with something like shared secret key or public key for authentication) to detect active man in the middle attacks where the attacker prevents the parties connecting to each other and then pretending to both parties to be the other party by creating his own "messages" as if they came from the other party. Or at least to have some kind of additional trusted physical medium where it is impossible to prevent the parties communicating directly, capturing their "messages" and then sending your own modified "messages" instead -- perhaps based on some kind of timing etc.

And if you still have to rely to classical encryption methods to make sure you know the identity of the other party (to prevent active man in the middle attack), why not just use classical encryption methods for everything else as well, instead of using quantum key distribution?

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#16
post #6

What is actually the usecase for "quantum internet"? Like at most i hear about quantum key distribution, but quite frankly the classical equivalents to that are just as good if not better, so what is the actual benefit?

There is no obvious benefit yet, they are just researching for the sake of it. I think over time they will discover a benefit but the hype is obviously not warranted.

I guess, but benefits should be more theoretical. Like i don't think building one will give any insight into ideas for protocols. We already understand how it would work in theory and have for a long time.

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#17
post #6

What is actually the usecase for "quantum internet"? Like at most i hear about quantum key distribution, but quite frankly the classical equivalents to that are just as good if not better, so what is the actual benefit?

I don't know about use case but in various distributed computing models there are problems that are provably easier for quantum computers. Unlike the classical setting where the best we have is factoring where we don't know an efficient deterministic algorithm and various problems which experimentally seem to be faster for QC (and those results often don't last long as we get better at simulating quantum algorithms classically)

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#18
post #6

What is actually the usecase for "quantum internet"? Like at most i hear about quantum key distribution, but quite frankly the classical equivalents to that are just as good if not better, so what is the actual benefit?

isn't it too early to try to draw a bottom line for this type of research?

from my perspective this is fascinating area of physics that we need to know more about and will improve our understanding of fundamental physics.

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#19
post #6

What is actually the usecase for "quantum internet"? Like at most i hear about quantum key distribution, but quite frankly the classical equivalents to that are just as good if not better, so what is the actual benefit?

Safer mechanisms of distributing and establishing "root" keys for identify verification (so you can then use them easier with normal D-H on normal internet) is one use case I recall from 1990s.

But few years ago I heard of some other interesting uses where quantum properties were used to essentially enable DWDM-like virtual circuit routing with higher capacity - though I would have to look again if it went anywhere or into scrap heap of quantum BS.

Re: A rudimentary quantum network link between Dutch cities

#20
Hi all! I'm one of the co-authors. Honestly it's a dream to end up on HN with my research. As mentioned in the video we made, it has been a long road (6-7 years) to achieve this absolute moonshot of a project. I think we'll look back on this demonstration as the first experiment that truly made a distributed and real-world deployed quantum network. Not only did we use a (quantum) hardware platform capable of quantum processing, we also generated the entanglement in a way that it can be used in further quantum computations. In order for all this to work on a distributed network, we had to fully design and build the architecture to support that, both hard- and software. And we did it successfully!

Besides hard-working PhD students, another key ingredient that our research institute QuTech facilitated, was the collaboration with expert hardware and software engineers, allowing us to quickly transform new ideas into (deployable) products. A great show of what's possible when academia mixes with professional engineering. But of course there was enough hacking and tinkering going on that it warrants to be on HN ;)

You can reply here if you have any questions, I'll be checking throughout the day. Thanks!

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