Live data from Hacker News

BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

ft.com

11–20 of 126 posts

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#11
post #3

Only 7.9 percent of all of their sales is outside of China. They can generate fancy numbers galore on domestic soil where they have both production subsidies as well as government aid for buying said vehicles, but it's very unclear how they're going to fare outside of China.

How significant are the production subsidies? Are they a meaningful percentage of sales revenue?

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#12

I think the wave of tariffs is showing that fundamentally cars are becoming low margin businesses with the rise of electric cars, which is good for consumers and bad for producers.

The issue with the tariff approach is that they generally apply to countries that actually have an auto industry, but not all countries have one. Countries without tariffs will enjoy lots of competition and cheap prices, while established automakers with tariff protections will be squeezed out.

I don't see how it's possible to stop China, even if rich western countries band together.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#13
post #3

Only 7.9 percent of all of their sales is outside of China. They can generate fancy numbers galore on domestic soil where they have both production subsidies as well as government aid for buying said vehicles, but it's very unclear how they're going to fare outside of China.

Byd is on every corner in my area of Australia. Much more so than Tesla.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#14

I think the wave of tariffs is showing that fundamentally cars are becoming low margin businesses with the rise of electric cars, which is good for consumers and bad for producers.

Cars was always a low margin business, that's why no one makes them anymore. Car OEMs contracted out every component and system possible. Almost all the value in modern cars is various tiers of suppliers. There's a Mercedes model they contracted out even final assembly. They went to the same Jack Welch school of business that boeing did and thought they were clever not being responsible for anything and could just be middlemen pushing paper.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#15
I wonder how much Tesla's support of Trump is hurting his sales. Without going public on Trump, would his sales have increased more ?

Right now seems most of his customers may be from people concerned about the environment and/or Climate Change. As time goes on, that will probably change.

There is a reason heads and owners of Companies try and stay out of politics.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#16
post #3

Only 7.9 percent of all of their sales is outside of China. They can generate fancy numbers galore on domestic soil where they have both production subsidies as well as government aid for buying said vehicles, but it's very unclear how they're going to fare outside of China.

The percentage of their sales outside China simply means that China is big and they probably dominate sales in China. We already know that. China is so big that probably around 30% of Tesla's sales are actually in China.

What's interesting is how they compete with other brands, and I think the trend is for BYD to increase their market share in all countries.

However, I would have liked to have more figures.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#17
post #4
post #3

Only 7.9 percent of all of their sales is outside of China. They can generate fancy numbers galore on domestic soil where they have both production subsidies as well as government aid for buying said vehicles, but it's very unclear how they're going to fare outside of China.

Wow, really good that Tesla has received no government subsidies then. :) https://www.ft.com/content/8179bd8a-4d96-43a9-a8f9-074f9a275...

I was going to say that it's a bit disingenuous to point at China's subsidies for EVs and EV manufacturers and not look in the mirror.

US government has handed out tons of low/no interest loans, tax incentives, and tax credits to spur development and deployment of EVs and related technologies like charger infrastructure.

Just this year, there was a $4500 tax credit towards leasing a number of vehicles. I leased a Prius Prime (one of the vehicles eligible) and basically got $4500 off the sticker. Bought out the lease and purchased the car for $4500 off.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#18

I think the wave of tariffs is showing that fundamentally cars are becoming low margin businesses with the rise of electric cars, which is good for consumers and bad for producers.

The issue with the tariff approach is that they generally apply to countries that actually have an auto industry, but not all countries have one. Countries without tariffs will enjoy lots of competition and cheap prices, while established automakers with tariff protections will be squeezed out. I don't see how it's possible to stop China, even if rich western countries band together.

The problem is when it's not fair competition. Certainly Tesla has received government subsidies, but I expect their numbers to pale in comparison to whatever money the Chinese government has directly and indirectly poured into BYD.

Flooding foreign markets with your heavily-subsidized cars in order to kill your competition is great for you, but not so great for competitors in the market of sale.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#19
post #8
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Tesla mentioned in the FT.com article? I can't access it. On https://apnews.com/article/microchip-electric-vehicles-batte... Tesla is only mentioned by one state loosing a project. "Many of the companies drawing the biggest subsidy offers — such as Intel, Hyundai, Panasonic, Micron, Toyota, Ford and General Motors — are profitable and operate around the globe. Some lesser-known names in the nascent EV field are ge…

Over $2bn in state and federal subsidies - https://archive.is/g5Gnb https://imgur.com/a/XYSSnTQ

Do we have any insight into how much the Chinese government supports BYD? $2B seems like a pretty small number, to be honest. I would expect the number to be at least an order of magnitude (or two!) higher for BYD.

At any rate, $2B is a drop in Tesla's bucket; their quarterly revenue is around $25B now. That $2B may have been given at a critical time in Tesla's development and growth, but today it would be 2% of their yearly revenue.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#20

I think the wave of tariffs is showing that fundamentally cars are becoming low margin businesses with the rise of electric cars, which is good for consumers and bad for producers.

Cars was always a low margin business, that's why no one makes them anymore. Car OEMs contracted out every component and system possible. Almost all the value in modern cars is various tiers of suppliers. There's a Mercedes model they contracted out even final assembly. They went to the same Jack Welch school of business that boeing did and thought they were clever not being responsible for anything and could just be…

>They went to the same Jack Welch school of business that boeing did and thought they were clever not being responsible for anything and could just be middlemen pushing paper.

Mercedes thought themselves to be untouchable due to it being a premium brand with high margins by putting a star on commodity parts, like they're a Swiss watch.

Post reply on HN