2008: My year of living smaller • Hacker News Board

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#11

Post by jerf » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 1:46 AM UTC

mdasen wrote: post #2

Does living smaller mean having to give up things (such as replacing socks with holes)? The majority of Americans can take simpler steps. For example, buy larger containers. So, I'm a young post-college student trying to save as much money as I can and most of my friends make wages that are barely double the federal poverty line and we're in the Boston area. So, we buy as large a container as we can to save money. Wh…

The other thing I'd add is that if you're interested in this as a serious endeavor and not just for show, you need to take some time and analyze your expenditures first. Just like optimizing code, you need to go get the low hanging fruit before you start fiddling around the edges.

Buying a 2-liter and a reusable glass isn't worth much if your lead foot is costing you $200 extra a month in gas.

(Incidentally, I'm not tossing in the "just like optimizing code" thing as a sop to the audience; the optimization loop 1. Find biggest problem 2. Solve biggest problem 3. Repeat as needed (and no more) is generally useful in many situations.)

Analysis will almost certainly reveal some expenditures and things that are surprisingly expensive, but will probably also show there are some niceties that don't actually have anywhere near as much impact as you might think at first. For instance, I tend to buy the nicer spices; sure, they may look twice as expensive but it may be worth 1 penny more per meal (for instance).

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#12

Post by timr » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 2:27 AM UTC

mdasen wrote: post #7

endtwist wrote: post #5

Though this article isn't all that well written, it brings up what seems to be a (very good) trend lately: people exploring the idea of living with less. I'm only a college student right now, and already have limited expenses, but I've been exploring the idea of reducing the amount of things I own; a more minimalist lifestyle. I've realized something that Jelliffe points out towards the end of his article: "Simplicit…

Which makes more sense: owning one quality $100 knife for 30+ years, or going through 10 $20 knives over the course of 30 years? But living with 1 $100 knife requires certain behavioral changes. You must take care of it, sharpen it, transport it if you're moving. Really, these are positive changes and I totally agree that we should be buying more durable goods and maintaining them. In fact, this behavioral change is…

The government promotes home ownership because it's believed to decrease crime at a community level; I don't think they care about the amount of stuff that people buy. In fact, I'd wager that home ownership tends to increase a person's tendency to buy crap.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#13

Post by kirubakaran » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 2:34 AM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #10

kirubakaran wrote: post #4

Why such extremism? Without it, one could get most of the benefits without most of the hassles.

It was an experiment.

Good point.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#14

Post by corysama » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 2:41 AM UTC

As people slowly learn that having too much stuff can be more hassle than it's worth, I'm seeing a quiet trend towards simplified consumption. It is my expectation that rapidly developing regions like China will go through a period of outrageous consumption, but it is my hope that they will learn quickly from the American trailblazers in that area and settle into prefering quality and simplicity over conspicuous quantity.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#15

Post by drinian » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 3:34 AM UTC

Live with less, but don't forget that time has inherent value as well. Opportunity cost. Ask yourself if your purchases are giving you less or more time to do what you actually want.

I also find that the best limiter for me is having a restricted living space. I spent a year and a half on the road as a software consultant, and my luggage got progressively smaller as time went on. By the end of my travel life last summer, I had managed to combine two weeks of business necessities with a camping mattress and stuff for the weekend, and hold it all in a single airline carry-on sized backpack. This didn't make me less of a consumer, though, it just directed the consumption in different ways. I consumed airline tickets, hotel rooms, restaurant food, etc. at a much higher rate than most people. But I enjoyed the lifestyle.

That being said, I would still really like to have a flat-screen TV and a couch of my own. Priorities, though...

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#16

Post by dionidium » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 4:18 AM UTC

"I don't particularly feel I need my mobile, but my friends consider it unfriendly not to be at their beck and call"

I didn't own a wireless phone in 2008 and noticed the same thing. For example, nobody wants to arrange to meet at a specific place/time for a public event; they want you to call when you get there and walk toward them pointing out landmarks that betray your location.

I already knew that this is how meeting arrangements are now handled; what I didn't expect is that it's now considered rude to require a more specific commitment.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#17

Post by MikeCapone » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 4:42 AM UTC

As long as it's a personal choice, it's fine.

The problem with this 'movement' is when it tries to impose its choices on others.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#18

Post by pageman » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 5:02 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #6

endtwist wrote: post #5

Though this article isn't all that well written, it brings up what seems to be a (very good) trend lately: people exploring the idea of living with less. I'm only a college student right now, and already have limited expenses, but I've been exploring the idea of reducing the amount of things I own; a more minimalist lifestyle. I've realized something that Jelliffe points out towards the end of his article: "Simplicit…

"everything I own has to be packed away in a storage unit at the end of the school year. Therefore, the less I own, the less I have to store, and the better off I am. I've been working to get rid of a lot of things I don't need (how much clothing do I really need? Electronics? Trinkets?) and avoiding buying new things." Well said. Whenever I've had the luxury of living somewhere for an extended period of time I've ac…

I have to agree with this (I'm thinking of that Stuff essay by Paul Graham) - I have stuff in Dubai, Kabul, Yangon - in boxes. I'm sixpence none the richer (experience-wise) without it.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#19

Post by whacked_new » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 5:06 AM UTC

I remember reading that when Einstein moves, the most important things he brought with him were some paper, his pipe, and his violin.

Paul Erdos probably was an even lighter traveller.

It all depends on what defines you.

Re: 2008: My year of living smaller

#20

Post by hs » Mon, Jan 05, 2009, 5:10 AM UTC

mdasen wrote: post #7

endtwist wrote: post #5

Though this article isn't all that well written, it brings up what seems to be a (very good) trend lately: people exploring the idea of living with less. I'm only a college student right now, and already have limited expenses, but I've been exploring the idea of reducing the amount of things I own; a more minimalist lifestyle. I've realized something that Jelliffe points out towards the end of his article: "Simplicit…

Which makes more sense: owning one quality $100 knife for 30+ years, or going through 10 $20 knives over the course of 30 years? But living with 1 $100 knife requires certain behavioral changes. You must take care of it, sharpen it, transport it if you're moving. Really, these are positive changes and I totally agree that we should be buying more durable goods and maintaining them. In fact, this behavioral change is…

spot on for the behavioral changes

i'd use the $100 knife LESS than the $10 counterpart -> that's why i use $1 knifes because i cannot care less if it breaks

even google doesn't use sun blades, that's pretty telling

about home ownership, there are correlations that countries that are low on home ownership level(e.g, swiss) is richer than ones with high level (e.g, spain)

those examples are correlation, not causality ... anomaly i'd say and it's worth practicing