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Do hard things carefully

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Re: Do hard things carefully

#11

Post by ileonichwiesz »

arzke wrote: post #4

> “You have to listen to your gut. If something feels off, you’ve gotta listen to what your body is telling you and get out. If you don’t, you’ll end up regretting it.” > Next time you’re feeling some discomfort in a situation, slow down and take a deep breath. Check in with yourself. Where is your edge? What level of discomfort feels challenging but not overwhelming right now? Can you lean in and try something diffi…

> I'd assume some neurodivergent people would struggle with this as well, as they might find it challenging to sense this balance.

Yeah, this is useless because it relies on the assumption that people’s level of comfort/discomfort is a rational thing that’s consistent among different people. It treats that complex barely-understood neurological system like it’s a barometer outside your window.

I’ve been dealing with an anxiety disorder for much of my life (and it’s not rare!), and I’ve explicitly had to learn NOT to trust my gut. My gut can randomly tell me I’m in mortal danger as I’m shopping for groceries or answering an email. I’m not listening to that thing.

Re: Do hard things carefully

#12

Post by Rzor »

ileonichwiesz wrote: post #11
arzke wrote: post #4

> “You have to listen to your gut. If something feels off, you’ve gotta listen to what your body is telling you and get out. If you don’t, you’ll end up regretting it.” > Next time you’re feeling some discomfort in a situation, slow down and take a deep breath. Check in with yourself. Where is your edge? What level of discomfort feels challenging but not overwhelming right now? Can you lean in and try something diffi…

> I'd assume some neurodivergent people would struggle with this as well, as they might find it challenging to sense this balance. Yeah, this is useless because it relies on the assumption that people’s level of comfort/discomfort is a rational thing that’s consistent among different people. It treats that complex barely-understood neurological system like it’s a barometer outside your window. I’ve been dealing with…

It's also no small feat to ignore your senses like that. I feel that any small thought can become a storm at any moment and hijack my well being into another reality. It's crippling and very tiring. No kidding you had to "learn".

Re: Do hard things carefully

#13

Post by Jerrrrrrry »

ismail wrote: post #3

The concept he discusses of “the edge” is very similar to “edge of chaos” from physics, but has been studied extensively in complexity sciences, specifically complex adaptive systems. The theory proposes that all complex adaptive systems (CAS) naturally adapt to a state at the “edge of chaos” which is a transition zone between order(stability) and disorder. The theory proposes this is the zone where maximal learning/…

all systems that have accumulated complexity did it in an effort to create resiliency to survive/reproduce/continue to exist, which is innately a method of accumulate self-supervised 'learning', when left to dwell to its own emergent methods.

this applies to all systems, from biospheres to food-chains to cells to human evolution.

resiliency is needed for systems to be less fragile against chaotic perturbations, as the most 'complex' (sub) systems are the most impacted by any change without it.

complex systems would fail catastrophically instantly if its resilient sub-systems weren't able to postpone it.

resiliency is the ability to respond to varied input, to face dis-order.

The universe, uncaring, is a dis-orderly increase in entropy. It accumulates, and averages to eventually to act as a sieve, a selective pressure, an edge....a particularly varied input.

Anything that would pressure the system - such as an environment change or competition against itself for a resource constraint - and this selective pressure culls the weakest variations of the system from the pool. Those variations that had the least effective resiliency features, now gone, are quickly replaced, and the system continues to exist.

All complex systems in adversarial conditions must then incentivize resiliency, and the generalized property of being self-reliant; adaptive to variation in input.

This incentive/reward is essentially an iota of agency, a flash of an of objective goal.

intelligence is the ability to reach a goal given varied input states.

The ability to 'learn' is really just how to compile ways to reach a goal, inferring relations between the solutions, then internalizing that inference to later better increase its ability to generalize / respond to varying input.

learning is _only_ possible at the edge of chaos

Re: Do hard things carefully

#14

Post by taneq »

ismail wrote: post #3

The concept he discusses of “the edge” is very similar to “edge of chaos” from physics, but has been studied extensively in complexity sciences, specifically complex adaptive systems. The theory proposes that all complex adaptive systems (CAS) naturally adapt to a state at the “edge of chaos” which is a transition zone between order(stability) and disorder. The theory proposes this is the zone where maximal learning/…

The boundary between predictable and chaotic is always there most interesting place to be.

Re: Do hard things carefully

#15

Post by metalman »

I like the authors take, and disatisfaction with certain maxums,so I created my own which is relevant, "just because you can,doesn't mean you should" which I first applied to lifting very heavy things and living as I do ,crossing paths with people from most lifestyles and groups,I have seen a good many exceptional people perform feats in there various fields....there is always risk.....and nothing would be fun without it....but then there is peformative stupidity...which most of us have had a good go at.....so its sll goid,eh!

Re: Do hard things carefully

#16

Post by ejoebstl »

I dislike the example of sharing personal information in the article. It's sometimes not only about your own comfort and boundaries, but also how much you want to put on another person.

Re: Do hard things carefully

#17

Post by richrichie »

metalman wrote: post #15

I like the authors take, and disatisfaction with certain maxums,so I created my own which is relevant, "just because you can,doesn't mean you should" which I first applied to lifting very heavy things and living as I do ,crossing paths with people from most lifestyles and groups,I have seen a good many exceptional people perform feats in there various fields....there is always risk.....and nothing would be fun withou…

But you should when it comes to lifting heavy things. Progressive adaptation, etc.

Re: Do hard things carefully

#18

Post by spuds »

imsurajkadam wrote: post #2

This is quite a good exercise to follow but don’t know how easy it would be to actually implement this in situations. I mean bcz of the habits we do not have that liberty to stop and ask this to yourself. Just like controlled breathing.

Yeah, took me (author) quite a bit of practice to get there. I still struggle with it at times, though at this point I find I can generally implement it say 90% of the time. Definitely feels like a muscle I had to build up.

Re: Do hard things carefully

#19

Post by pbronez »

A related concept from psychology/education is “the zone of proximal development.” It extends this “edge” concept to consider how much further you can push with support from a coach.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/zone-of-proximal-developmen...

“It represents tasks beyond the learner’s current abilities but is attainable with the help and guidance of the more knowledgeable other (MKO). The ZPD is the range of tasks a person can’t complete independently but can accomplish with support.”

Re: Do hard things carefully

#20

Post by coffeecantcode »

ismail wrote: post #3

The concept he discusses of “the edge” is very similar to “edge of chaos” from physics, but has been studied extensively in complexity sciences, specifically complex adaptive systems. The theory proposes that all complex adaptive systems (CAS) naturally adapt to a state at the “edge of chaos” which is a transition zone between order(stability) and disorder. The theory proposes this is the zone where maximal learning/…

It has also been posed that the hemispheres of our brain operate at this edge of chaos with one hemisphere aligned with the novel and chaotic, and the other hemisphere aligned with routine and order. Then in this theory as we sleep/dream our brains take the novel and chaotic things we experience and transfer them to the routine and orderly side of the brain. Or something along those lines.

I’m no psychologist but I find the existence of chaos and order in the physical word to be really interesting. It seems like something we would make up as a species, but really there is proof for it in the universe around us.

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