Live data from Hacker News

The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

nih.gov

11–20 of 111 posts

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#11

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

It seems to have no effect on me.

Am I an outlier?

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#12
post #3
post #2

It's taken 12 years to get from "this stuff exists in mice" to "we now know it actually exists in humans and is not vestigial". That seems like a long time. People get brain MRIs with contrast all the time, is there any reason why this never showed up? Because no one was looking? Or because it's a slow mechanism?

Looking up “brain MRI with contrast”, the biggest difference seems to be that in a regular MRI the contrast goes to the blood, but here it goes straight to the brain cerebrospinal fluid. You need open brain for that, so indeed doesn’t seem trivial.

Cerebrospinal fluid is produced in the brain, I would imagine that the contrast would end up in newly produced fluid as well, but maybe that assumption is wrong.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#13
post #10

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

This is some amazing work; and it also raises my belief that a Langford Basilisk is neurologically possible by about 25%

Thanks for introducing me to the concept! Just read the short story I assume you are referring to: https://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#14

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

In me, there seemed to be an illusion going on. It felt like a tunnel and it felt as immersive as a "dream world" (albeit a bit of a boring one).

What I also noticed were the after image effects. A strong blue dot every time it flashed and circles divided into 8 sections like a star.

This was trippy.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#15
post #2

It's taken 12 years to get from "this stuff exists in mice" to "we now know it actually exists in humans and is not vestigial". That seems like a long time. People get brain MRIs with contrast all the time, is there any reason why this never showed up? Because no one was looking? Or because it's a slow mechanism?

Two things:

1. Blood brain barrier and CSF should be separate for all but tiny molecules. It's why CT angiograms are able to visualize distinct vessels. So it is pretty hard to directly interact with this sort of thing in vivo

2. A good chunk of the neuro community have been operating under the assumption that some of those mouse model findings are mechanisms in humans too. Since we couldn't easily prove it, people used a bunch of next best tools with fancy imaging that demonstrated it was very likely. On top of furter proof, this sort of study allows us to begin pinpointing exactly how close our next best tools are at estimating in vivo processes without opening up the head.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#16

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

It seems to have no effect on me. Am I an outlier?

Its very much experimental so we don't know if there are people for whom this has no impact, all the people in the studies respond so the question is whether your cerebral spinal fluid is being pumped around and flushing your brain and you don't feel an impact or whether you get no cerebral spine fluid movement at all. Someone would need to recreate this experiment with you in the MRI to find out which it is.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#17

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

Clearing the waste sounds like a good thing, I guess. Haven't got time to read the study, but can this have beneficial effects to do while awake?

It certainly feels quite strange after watching the prototype for 8 cycles.

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some amazing work; and it also raises my belief that a Langford Basilisk is neurologically possible by about 25%

Thanks for introducing me to the concept! Just read the short story I assume you are referring to: https://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm

Looks like it, according to Wikipedia: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Langford%27s_basilisk

Just read the story, thought it was very reminiscent of one of the plot points in Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash (1992) - until I noticed the publication date of 1988, 4 years earlier!

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#19

There have been a couple of papers [1] that can induce this process while awake using particular image patterns as confirmed in an MRI. I think the NIH confirmation is running behind in the science, independent research is quite a bit ahead of them. I came across the paper on this last year and implemented a very simple page with the parameters they used [2]. There is a number of disease models that show reduced or n…

Staring at the v0.3 produces an effect similar to something I'm able to do trigger manually on command. I've always had the feeling that I'm somehow triggering a "flow" in my brain, but I have no way to confirm what's actually going on. It's actually stronger when I trigger it manually, and it feels like it flows down my spine and eventually some weak signal reaches my extremities. (Maybe that means it's not CSF after all?) Oddly, I do feel like I can think more clearly afterward, but the brain is very bad at judging itself, so it's more likely to be an illusion than anything real. Anyone else able to manually trigger a feeling like this in their brains?

Re: The brain's waste clearing lymphatic system shown in people for first time

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to have no effect on me. Am I an outlier?

Its very much experimental so we don't know if there are people for whom this has no impact, all the people in the studies respond so the question is whether your cerebral spinal fluid is being pumped around and flushing your brain and you don't feel an impact or whether you get no cerebral spine fluid movement at all. Someone would need to recreate this experiment with you in the MRI to find out which it is.

What is one supposed to experience or feel? Maybe my computer is too slow or my monitor is too small? I used to collect gifs that were similar to this just because they had a neat visual effect but neither those nor this image gives me any kind of experience. If I could find a private business that has an MRI I would pay cash to get a full body scan and then just a brain scan as I have always wanted one but hospitals around me want me to go through their process and give me strange looks when I just want to pay cash and be scanned. I think it would be interesting to see what effect assorted images have. There was another type of scanner, I forgot what it was called ... that would show a 3D image of the brain during activity and would show when parts of the brain that should be responding are not. In that study it was used primarily on kids/teens that were prone to crime. I can not remember what it was called. This was quite some time ago. The patient would have many wires attached to their head. It would effectively show animated holes so to speak when part of a persons brain was not functioning correctly due to physical trauma, drugs, etc...
Post reply on HN