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Intelsat 33e breaks up in geostationary orbit

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Re: Intelsat 33e breaks up in geostationary orbit

#11

Post by matrix2003 »

nordsieck wrote: post #4

It is particularly bad for a satellite in geostationary orbit to break up or fail. Satellites are packed as tightly as possible into that orbit due to its economic importance (it's very useful for a satellite, particularly communications satellites, to always be over the same part of the Earth), so there is a higher than normal likelihood that this could be seriously disruptive.

Not to mention debris can be in GEO for a long, long time. People worry about LEO constellations causing Kessler syndrome, but the reality is that LEO debris deorbits in the order of months/years. GEO is much, much longer.

Re: Intelsat 33e breaks up in geostationary orbit

#13

Post by pdabbadabba »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #8

How does a satellite break up in orbit? Was it struck by something?

For a satellite in a stable GEO orbit, I think there are basically two possibilities:

1. Collision with other debris

2. Internal fault causing uncontrolled release of stored energy (i.e., explosion)

Intelsat-29e used the same satellite bus and experienced #2, in the form of some sort of uncontrolled propellant release.

Re: Intelsat 33e breaks up in geostationary orbit

#15

Post by mattofak »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #8

How does a satellite break up in orbit? Was it struck by something?

Could be struck by a micrometeorite, or if they were doing a station keeping maneuver something could have gone wrong with a thruster. (Apparently the first in it's class Intelsat-29e was lost due to a fuel leak, so maybe there is something systemically wrong in the spacecraft bus.)

Re: Intelsat 33e breaks up in geostationary orbit

#17

Post by schiffern »

milgrim wrote: post #2

For some context: The same Boeing satellite bus already experienced a major issue some years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19658800

I know the Boeing connection is the most "sexy" cause, so people are probably going to run with it anyway, but I also have to wonder about a space debris collision. GEO is already quite polluted, and the "graveyard orbits" commonly used have been shown to be inadequate.[1]

Can anyone tell whether (at 60 degrees East and at 4:30 UTC October 19) the satellite was passing through the intersection with the main plane of lunar perturbed debris? This would hint at a possible debris strike.

Sadly I can't seem to find a 3D satellite visualization that lets you go back in time. :-(

[1] https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2008/03/Spacecraft...

Re: Intelsat 33e breaks up in geostationary orbit

#18

Post by nordsieck »

matrix2003 wrote: post #11
nordsieck wrote: post #4

It is particularly bad for a satellite in geostationary orbit to break up or fail. Satellites are packed as tightly as possible into that orbit due to its economic importance (it's very useful for a satellite, particularly communications satellites, to always be over the same part of the Earth), so there is a higher than normal likelihood that this could be seriously disruptive.

Not to mention debris can be in GEO for a long, long time. People worry about LEO constellations causing Kessler syndrome, but the reality is that LEO debris deorbits in the order of months/years. GEO is much, much longer.

> Not to mention debris can be in GEO for a long, long time.

On human timescales, it's basically forever. Hopefully we'll develop the tech to clean up debris in space, but it's extra challenging to do it in geostationary orbit since it's so far away from Earth, both in terms of actual distance, and delta-V.

> People worry about LEO constellations causing Kessler syndrome, but the reality is that LEO debris deorbits in the order of months/years.

It's a little more complicated than that. The time to spontaneously deorbit is based on orbital height. Starlink can deorbit on its own in 5-10 years because it's orbiting so low. But any OneWeb satellites that malfunction[1] will take 1000+ years to deorbit because they're up at 1000+ km.

---

1. Like this one

https://spacenews.com/oneweb-mulls-debris-removal-service-fo...

Re: Intelsat 33e breaks up in geostationary orbit

#19

Post by pmontra »

milgrim wrote: post #2

For some context: The same Boeing satellite bus already experienced a major issue some years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19658800

I was not familiar with the term satellite bus. I kind of guessed what it is but not really. Here's the link to the Wikipedia page. There might be a link to the Boeing bus in there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_bus

Re: Intelsat 33e breaks up in geostationary orbit

#20

Post by mschuster91 »

dylan604 wrote: post #9
SteveNuts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should teach it in every MBA program in the country /s.

You joke, but it absolutely should. Boeing is a great example of "when all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail". When MBAs are left in charge with no guardrails, this is what can happen. That's a great thing to teach to new MBAs. Every field has this potential pitfall. When you hyperfocus, bad things can happen. Know when to say when.

> Know when to say when.

People warned about exactly what happened already back in the time when the merger happened that introduced beancounter culture to Boeing.

The problem was, as always, no one listens to the warners and the whiners when there is money to be made.

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