Honestly, I've aside from React and Java (8 -> 21 is big but still not that big), there's very little software that I updated and noticed a major step change difference in the system. Once it works, its fine
Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
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Re: Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
#12Because upgrading is a lot of work, and is higher risk than upgrading other software.
Seems like a massive design fail if they can't maintain backwards compatability and provide a safe, low friction upgrade process.
Re: Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
#13I've always found it fascinating that there is a vocal contingent at HN that seems to legitimately hate advertising. But then an article like this turns up that is obvious advertising and is also a good article - we get a nice summary of what the major performance features over different postgres versions are, and some interesting case studies (I'd never even heard of the NOT VALID option although apparently it is no…
I rarely see much objection to contentful 'advertising' like this. Anyway, the answer really is that it's fully handled by submission/voting/flagging mechanisms, doesn't matter what anyone might say.
Re: Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
#14> Postgres 17.0 has been out for a bit and ...
No. It's been released in September 2024. That's not "quite a bit".
Now as to why people aren't all on 17 and not even on 16 yet, here's an acronym for you: LTS [1]
Debian 11 Bullseye is the current LTS. It came out in 2021.
Re: Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
#15Honestly, I've aside from React and Java (8 -> 21 is big but still not that big), there's very little software that I updated and noticed a major step change difference in the system. Once it works, its fine
Postgres and mysql usually have changes in each new version that are important enough to motivate an upgrade, whatever it is new features or better performance or both. Although it really depends if your are using the features they are improving or not (e.g. if you don't use partitions, well of course that 30% perf improvement on write operations on partitions won't benefit you).
You can check this article about Uber migrating its Mysql from v5 to v8 posted here 3 days ago [1]. Among other things, they observed a "~94% reduction in overall database lock time." The before/after graph is pretty impressive. It also gave them window functions and better JSON support, which are two very big features.
[1] https://www.uber.com/en-JO/blog/upgrading-ubers-mysql-fleet
Re: Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
#16Upgrades are hard. There was no replication in the before times. The original block-level replication didn't work among different major versions. Slony was a painful workaround based on triggers that amplified writes. Newer PostgreSQL versions are better. Yet still not quite as robust or easy as MySQL. At a certain scale even MySQL upgrades can be painful. At least when you cannot spare more than a few minutes of dow…
I've always wondered why Postgres is so insanely popular. I mean it has some nice things like very powerful support for a very comprehensive subset of SQL functionality, but most apps don't need all that. It really feels like early 1990s vintage Unix software. It's clunky and arcane and it's hard to feel confident doing anything complex with it.
> It really feels like early 1990s vintage Unix software. It's clunky and arcane and it's hard to feel confident doing anything complex with it.
How software "feels" is subjective. Can you be more specific?
Re: Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
#17In Oracle, ALTER TABLE MOVE in 8i was a godsend, finally enabling a table reorganization without export/import.
My timid management forbade an upgrade from Oracle 7.3.4 until 2013. It was agony to remain on that museum piece for as long as we did.
I am upgrade-minded, but my management is not. I always lose.
I am retiring in two years. I will not miss their problems, not at all.
Edit: Oracle 10g was the last release that (for us) brought must-have features. Sure, upgrading to 19 or 23 would be great, but it doesn't bring anything that I really want.
Re: Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
#18If PostgreSQL has replication, why are they talking about "minimal" downtime? Is there no quorum strategy that delivers high availability? I don't know as much as I should.
Re: Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
#19My upgrade policy for everything:
Significant security vulnerability? Upgrade
Feature you need? Upgrade
All other reasons: Don't upgrade.
Upgrading takes effort and it is risky. The benefits must be worth the risks.
Re: Why does everyone run ancient Postgres versions?
#20Weird that the maybe-AI-generated image of a column says "Postgres 13" on it when the article talks about Postgres 17.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me. The article is about people not upgrading from older versions. One could imagine that PostgreSQL 13.0 is the “pillar” of some company, that their whole system relies upon. The article then goes into detail on what they are missing out on by not upgrading PostgreSQL to a more recent major version, and why it might be that so many stay on ancient versions, and also how you can actually perform major version upgrades of PostgreSQL.