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The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends

michaelshermer.substack.com

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Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends

#11

Post by tsimionescu »

AStonesThrow wrote: post #3

Whether it is 14th century or an authentic relic, I still believe it's simply amazing to behold. We can explain what it's made of and guess at how old it is, and we can guess at its provenance and history, but there's simply no good explanation of how it was imprinted. The photo-negative imprint is nothing short of miraculous to me. Perhaps it's a miraculous forgery--doesn't matter anymore. The crucifix in a local pa…

It's perfectly fine to consider it a beautiful and unique 14th century icon, even though its creators were aiming to get money/fame off a fake relic. In that sense, it might be the most remarkable fake in history.

And I also agree that faith shouldn't be based on physical proof or analysis of this kind, which is always subject to the specter of fraud or misunderstanding.

The point of understanding the nature of the Shroud of Turin is not to shake anyone's faith. It is simply to understand the truth (an important concept to any Christian) of an item.

Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends

#12

Post by FrustratedMonky »

lisper wrote: post #6
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #2

I don't get why it couldn't just be anybody's shroud. Didn't everyone at that time get a shroud.

There was never a time in which "everyone" got a shroud. Even in Jesus's time, burying someone in a shroud was a distinctly Jewish custom, and using linen did not become fashionable until after Jesus's death [1] [2]. Furthermore, for a crucifixion victim to be buried at all, let alone in a shroud, would be extremely unusual. It was generally part of the punishment for the body to be left on the cross after death to b…

Sure. Not everyone globally, just everyone in the "distinctly Jewish" culture

Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends

#14

Post by lisper »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #12
lisper wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was never a time in which "everyone" got a shroud. Even in Jesus's time, burying someone in a shroud was a distinctly Jewish custom, and using linen did not become fashionable until after Jesus's death [1] [2]. Furthermore, for a crucifixion victim to be buried at all, let alone in a shroud, would be extremely unusual. It was generally part of the punishment for the body to be left on the cross after death to b…

Sure. Not everyone globally, just everyone in the "distinctly Jewish" culture

OK, for that definition of "everyone" then yes, it's probably mostly true under normal circumstances. (Poor Jews may have been buried without shrouds, I don't know.) But 1) being crucified was not a "normal circumstance" and 2) linen did not become common as a material for burial shrouds until many years after Jesus died.

Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends

#16

Post by FrustratedMonky »

fsckboy wrote: post #4
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #2

I don't get why it couldn't just be anybody's shroud. Didn't everyone at that time get a shroud.

your family has been passing down a family bible for many years. your father gives it to you and says, "this was your great-great-great-great grandfather's, he brought it from the old country, and it has the names of all the babies born into the family back then. you say "eh, it could be anybody's, everybody had a bible and lots of kids back then" and you throw it away. you're right, no way to prove it was his and yo…

"no point in looking for meaning."

You say it I think sarcastically. I'm not sure.

But not spending a life going down rabbit holes that are most likely false, is not giving up on searching for meaning.

It is just switching to more fruitful avenues to spend the limited time we have on looking for meaning.

Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends

#17

Post by [deleted] »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #16
fsckboy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your family has been passing down a family bible for many years. your father gives it to you and says, "this was your great-great-great-great grandfather's, he brought it from the old country, and it has the names of all the babies born into the family back then. you say "eh, it could be anybody's, everybody had a bible and lots of kids back then" and you throw it away. you're right, no way to prove it was his and yo…

"no point in looking for meaning." You say it I think sarcastically. I'm not sure. But not spending a life going down rabbit holes that are most likely false, is not giving up on searching for meaning. It is just switching to more fruitful avenues to spend the limited time we have on looking for meaning.

[deleted]

Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends

#18

Post by davesmylie »

therealpresence wrote: post #13

[flagged]

> The scientific scrutiny that all of these items have been subjected to is insane, yet they continue to hold up.

I guess you could just read the linked article - I think it pretty convincingly gave multiple reasons why this is demonstrably fake, both scientific and historical.

Re: The Shroud of Turin: History and Legends

#20

Post by appguy »

Something that amazes me about The Shroud of Turin is that if it was created in the 14th century, how did they create a photographic negative 400 years before the first known photographic negative was created in 1826 by Nicephore Niepce. It’s the most studied artifact in history and still no one knows how The Shroud was created.
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