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Scientists successfully breed corals to improve their heat tolerance

phys.org

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Re: Scientists successfully breed corals to improve their heat tolerance

#11

Not sure this is a good idea. What if the disappearance of corals at higher temps is part of a natural regulation system for Earth, where if they are artificially preserved, homeostasis will be perturbed? In general I am against these ecosystem engineering type projects: because the systems are so complex, we do not understand them, and we cannot test in isolation.

Of course there’s no engineered homeostasis to mess up on Earth. There might be a general tendency toward homeostasis: lots of, in some generalized sense “mass” and “momentum” in the system, and a tendency for species to die off by consuming all their resources and running out of places to put their byproducts. But that seems more likely to be something that humans fall afoul of, not coral, which seems more like an accidental victim and evidence that homeostasis has some pretty big gaps.

Re: Scientists successfully breed corals to improve their heat tolerance

#12
My understanding is that there are lots of existing corals well adapted to high heat/low pH, mostly from shallow atolls.

... But, if you transplant them they get outcompeted immediately. Corals are constantly engaged in a WW1-style trench warfare for space, so spending metabolic energy on something other than eradicating one's neighbor is not a great strategy.

(I work in a tangential area)

Re: Scientists successfully breed corals to improve their heat tolerance

#13

Perhaps a dumb question, but wouldn't we expect the rise in ocean temperatures to be cause nature to be doing this selective breeding right now?

Probably not quickly enough. Ecosystems can adapt if given enough time, but the recent rise in ocean temperatures has happened very quickly by evolutionary standards. There was a good episode of PBS Weathered on this recently if you want an idea of how quickly this has happened: https://youtu.be/YEH9nX5sudk?si=iCivRPwK8AI4sjKU

I kinda agree with the GP that this seems weird. Yes, ocean temps are rising very quickly, but this experiment only took 5 years, and was presumably a only a tiny fraction of how many wild coral there are. Ocean warming has taken place over several decades, and with millions of times as large of a natural population. It just seems weird that, if this kinda of adaptation is possible (and they showed it is), it wouldn't be happening in the wild. And that does seem to be true, it just seems weird.

Re: Scientists successfully breed corals to improve their heat tolerance

#16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not quickly enough. Ecosystems can adapt if given enough time, but the recent rise in ocean temperatures has happened very quickly by evolutionary standards. There was a good episode of PBS Weathered on this recently if you want an idea of how quickly this has happened: https://youtu.be/YEH9nX5sudk?si=iCivRPwK8AI4sjKU

I kinda agree with the GP that this seems weird. Yes, ocean temps are rising very quickly, but this experiment only took 5 years, and was presumably a only a tiny fraction of how many wild coral there are. Ocean warming has taken place over several decades, and with millions of times as large of a natural population. It just seems weird that, if this kinda of adaptation is possible (and they showed it is), it wouldn'…

I wonder if the fact that mature corals are stationary makes it harder for them to adapt. If the surviving corals are too far apart, it could be that they're unable to reproduce sexually. Coral larvae seem to be mobile until they find a structure to settle on, but if the larvae never have a chance to form...

(Corals can also reproduce asexually via fragmentation, but that won't help with genetic diversity in the wild I'd imagine. Researchers seem to take advantage of this for selective breeding though.)

Re: Scientists successfully breed corals to improve their heat tolerance

#17
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not quickly enough. Ecosystems can adapt if given enough time, but the recent rise in ocean temperatures has happened very quickly by evolutionary standards. There was a good episode of PBS Weathered on this recently if you want an idea of how quickly this has happened: https://youtu.be/YEH9nX5sudk?si=iCivRPwK8AI4sjKU

I kinda agree with the GP that this seems weird. Yes, ocean temps are rising very quickly, but this experiment only took 5 years, and was presumably a only a tiny fraction of how many wild coral there are. Ocean warming has taken place over several decades, and with millions of times as large of a natural population. It just seems weird that, if this kinda of adaptation is possible (and they showed it is), it wouldn'…

What makes you think it isn't happening in the wild? Evolution does not happen on the timescales of human lifetimes.

Re: Scientists successfully breed corals to improve their heat tolerance

#18
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not quickly enough. Ecosystems can adapt if given enough time, but the recent rise in ocean temperatures has happened very quickly by evolutionary standards. There was a good episode of PBS Weathered on this recently if you want an idea of how quickly this has happened: https://youtu.be/YEH9nX5sudk?si=iCivRPwK8AI4sjKU

I kinda agree with the GP that this seems weird. Yes, ocean temps are rising very quickly, but this experiment only took 5 years, and was presumably a only a tiny fraction of how many wild coral there are. Ocean warming has taken place over several decades, and with millions of times as large of a natural population. It just seems weird that, if this kinda of adaptation is possible (and they showed it is), it wouldn'…

It is happening in the world. It just looks more like Asian carp and zebra mussels and kudzu than a nice diverse ecosystem.

Something will live on coral reefs in a thousand years. We’ll have still lost something beautiful.

Re: Scientists successfully breed corals to improve their heat tolerance

#19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda agree with the GP that this seems weird. Yes, ocean temps are rising very quickly, but this experiment only took 5 years, and was presumably a only a tiny fraction of how many wild coral there are. Ocean warming has taken place over several decades, and with millions of times as large of a natural population. It just seems weird that, if this kinda of adaptation is possible (and they showed it is), it wouldn'…

What makes you think it isn't happening in the wild? Evolution does not happen on the timescales of human lifetimes.

Richard Lenski would disagree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_ex...

Re: Scientists successfully breed corals to improve their heat tolerance

#20
post #8

So while I 100% agree we have man-made climate change, there are two principles to live by: 1. Not everything is climate change. This has come up a lot with Hurricanes Helene and Milton recently, saying they're "unprecedented" or similar superlatives. Consider the 1916 flood of Asheville [1], also caused by a hurricane. Also, hurricanes aren't more frequent [2] but there's an argument to be made for intensity. A movi…

Kind of. Climate change has occurred in the past, and climate and weather are chaotic systems. But we can still determine where the attractor lies, and that it’s moving.

I still think we shouldn’t focus on climate change, since the majority of the population won’t understand, nor care.

Instead focus on environment, which is what you’re living in right now. The benefit is that doing what’s good for the environment year on year would also accomplish what’s good for climate

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