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Are technical certifications of any worth?

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Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?

#11
In my experience, there are three kinds of people who get certified:

1) The highly competent who happened to be bored an afternoon and got one as a joke, or just to check how easy it was to get one, or as a result of a stupid bet. These people usually never mention their certifications on their resumes.

2) The competent people who were forced by their company to get certified for whatever reason. If you ask them they'll tell you, and it might be on their resumes, but as a footnote.

3) Finally, the incompetent people, who think the certifications are actually worth anything. They'll proudly highlight what they got, thinking other people will be impressed. When hiring, this is obviously a strong negative marker.

Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?

#12
post #10
post #2

Typically, no. In my experience, anyone who hires you for the cert over experience, you don't actually want to work for. Using the cert as a conversation tool will usually get you shunned by people who work on whatever you're certified in day to day. Yes, the certs are often hard to attain, but for the most part experience trumps them all and the only thing a cert proves is that you had time to read the books and tak…

Yes, the certs are often hard to attain, but for the most part experience trumps them all and the only thing a cert proves is that you had time to read the books and take the tests. Couldn't you say the same thing for an undergraduate degree? anyone who hires you for the cert over experience, you don't actually want to work for. Why wouldn't you want to work for them?

> "Couldn't you say the same thing for an undergraduate degree?"

Absolutely. That's also why presence of an undergrad degree is, for me, not at all a signal while hiring. The only exception is if the program is particularly well known for being rigorous and having high standards.

> "Why wouldn't you want to work for them?"

Because the vast majority of tech industry certifications is all fluff and marketing, with practically no correlation with competence. I distrust employers who can't even see through that extremely thin veneer of bullshit.

Reliance on unreliable markers like this is a hallmark of heavily bureaucratic organizations, where certifications are used as a cover-your-ass mechanism: "but he was MCSE certified! How was I to know he was a complete idiot?!"

That's the antithesis of where I want to work.

Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?

#13
You can see from the answers in this thread that certifications, if worthy of anything at all, are deeply looked down upon by the same kind of people who read HN. And more often than not, these are the kind of people you want to be working with/for.

Generally, certifications, however, are appreciated by the stereotype of the HR department and non-technical managers of large organizations. If you have a certification from a brand name stating that you know how to use a particular technology, then no one is going to be blame for hiring you, even if it doesn't work out. That's the stereotype and unfortunately, it is far from uncommon.

You were spot on that people "can just clear this certification program just by preparing through previous question dumps. Does this do any good to anyone", but that's a broader problem relative to standardized test. To a large extent the same could be said about your degree.

Finally, as mentioned globally in the comments, experience is far more interesting than certifications. However, I may add that, for programmers, nothing, absolutely nothing, beats a code portfolio.

Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?

#14
Certifications are proof that you passed a test. This either means that you memorized a battery of questions, or you actually know the material.

Going with the latter (as the former would be weeded out nearly immediately on the job), it means that you know at least something about a topic, and are able to be trained on it.

Certs are more useful/common in the ops word. Personally I do the training/certification when I want to learn how to run a new operating system or application. It's a motivational time limit, and should teach you the basics at a minimum.

The other reason they're popular is they're a way to jump up the ladder at various workplaces that don't allow other methods of internal advancement, which is pretty dumb.

Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?

#15
post #3
post #2

Typically, no. In my experience, anyone who hires you for the cert over experience, you don't actually want to work for. Using the cert as a conversation tool will usually get you shunned by people who work on whatever you're certified in day to day. Yes, the certs are often hard to attain, but for the most part experience trumps them all and the only thing a cert proves is that you had time to read the books and tak…

I would think that certs would be useful in signaling commitment for people wanting to join that workforce.

I'm about to say negative things. I don't like saying negative things, particularly because someone could misread them as having personal animus behind them, which I don't have.

There's a particular type of college student who is not ready to work in a real job. They believe themselves incapable of working in real jobs, they signal this incapability, and employers generally hate working with them because they're needy and unprofessional. They don't thrive unless they have someone telling them "Do X then Y then Z" and then providing constant positive feedback ("100 points for X!"), which is a teacher-student relationship, not an employer-employee relationship.

Someone getting a certification is signaling a desire to continue being a student. Someone desiring to be an employee signals this desire by putting down the books and getting a job.

Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?

#17
Certification is a form of social proof, and a shortcut to find people who might be qualified in some industries.

They are worth it if your 'customer' (employer, actual customer, other) cares. But, thinking about acquiring social proof rather than certifications leads to a more interesting set of ideas.

For eg., you can acquire Salesforce certification for their platform or you can build a Salesforce app that customers use and rate highly. In turn, you would use the app to generate revenue or give it away for free so you can get multi million consulting contracts(slight exaggeration).

If you are looking to be cool with the tech crowd, no they are never worth it. If you want to provide a service to customers, social proof matters.

Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?

#18
There's a certification that always seems to be overlooked in these discussions but seems to be much agreed upon and present in other discussions, though for some reason its rarely mentioned in this topic.

When hiring my company's policy is that a code sample is a perfectly acceptable certification, often far more acceptable and telling than some of the more expensive forms.

And I think that we should all think of code samples as such. Especially if the code is public, or accepted into a (large/open source) project. A code sample is a certification, and one that is literally put to use in a production system/application has got to be one of the most valuable kinds of certification - that is, social proof - that one can achieve.

Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?

#19
I consider the mid or high level Cisco certifications to be meaningful (I don't have one yet, and wouldn't require one, but most CCIEs I've met have been pretty good at networking.).

CISSP, CompTIA, A+ seem to be inversely correlated with competence, although government and some employers require them (hence, I have CISSP). The CISA is pretty much just for tech auditors (which is why I have one), and only seems correlated with "able to be corporate and write reports" vs tech skills.

The Glock Armorer's cert is superior in its domain to any short tech cert.

Re: Are technical certifications of any worth?

#20

In my experience, there are three kinds of people who get certified: 1) The highly competent who happened to be bored an afternoon and got one as a joke, or just to check how easy it was to get one, or as a result of a stupid bet. These people usually never mention their certifications on their resumes. 2) The competent people who were forced by their company to get certified for whatever reason. If you ask them they…

> 3) Finally, the incompetent people, who think the certifications are actually worth anything. They'll proudly highlight what they got, thinking other people will be impressed. When hiring, this is obviously a strong negative marker.

Don't forget jamming all of the their certs onto their business card like they have a PhD, MD, JD....except it reads some other string of acronym vomit made up of decidedly less impressive acronyms like: John Smith MCSE, CISSP, MCA, GSE, RHCE/RHCA, ITIL.

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