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The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

dreamsongs.com

11–20 of 351 posts

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#11
I'll never understand the obsession with LISP. My guess is it just appeals to a certain type of person, sort of academic in my view. I'm not convinced that LISP was ever the-right-thing. The author didn't express anything about LISP vs C except to assert that C was a 50% solution and LISP was better.

I agree though that for practical purposes, practical solutions are just going to be more successful.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#12
post #6

This... Honestly the first lines seemed I thought this was an arrogant take, but he made _really_ good point and now I tend to agree with him. Still I am a bit bothered, does a counterargument exist?

Worse is Better is Worse: https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf

Same author (name is an anagram).

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#13
I feel like we're seeing a bit of push-back today against worse-is-better in the area of languages. Rust in particular feels more like the MIT approach, albeit with an escape hatch via the explicit keyword "unsafe." Its type system is very thoroughly specified and correct as opposed to C's YOLO typing.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#14

looking at how it played out with javascript one can't but agree. (edit: I mean it unironically)

JavaScript really illustrates the ultimate path-dependence of evolution. It got widely deployed during a boom time and therefore we are stuck with it forever.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#15
post #12
post #6

This... Honestly the first lines seemed I thought this was an arrogant take, but he made _really_ good point and now I tend to agree with him. Still I am a bit bothered, does a counterargument exist?

Worse is Better is Worse: https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf Same author (name is an anagram).

A pseudonym you mean?

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#16
I know this is an article about Lisp and the specific usage of this term in the context of software acceptance, but when you use a title that provocative I want to speak specifically about the idea of "Worse is Better" with respect to a more literal idea of "sometimes things get worse overtime but you are told they have improved"

For example, why is it that central vacuums are more rare in 2024 than they were in the 1980s, despite them being superior in every way compared to regular ones?

"Worse" vacuums are "better" for the economy? (because Dyson makes jobs and consumes resources?)

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#17
I don’t get the name New Jersey approach, is it just the general association of New Jersey and poor quality? When I think of New Jersey and CS, I think of Princeton, which has a pretty good program IIRC.

Anyway, I wouldn’t put simplicity on the same level as the other things. Simplicity isn’t a virtue in and of itself, simplicity is valuable because it helps all of the other things.

Simplicity helps a bit with consistency, in the sense that you have more trouble doing really bizarre and inconsistent things in a simple design.

Simplicity helps massively with correctness. You can check things that you don’t understand. Personally, that means there’s a complexity prove after which I can’t guarantee correctness. This is the main one I object to. Simplicity and correctness simply don’t belong in different bullet-points.

Simplicity could be seen as providing completeness. The two ways to produce completeness are to either work for a really long time and make something huge, or reduce scope and make a little complete thing.

It’s all simplicity.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#18
post #14

looking at how it played out with javascript one can't but agree. (edit: I mean it unironically)

JavaScript really illustrates the ultimate path-dependence of evolution. It got widely deployed during a boom time and therefore we are stuck with it forever.

But I feel like other languages that we were de-facto "stuck with" in certain domains boomed and then busted - i.e. Lua, Pearl, etc

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#19

I'll never understand the obsession with LISP. My guess is it just appeals to a certain type of person, sort of academic in my view. I'm not convinced that LISP was ever the-right-thing. The author didn't express anything about LISP vs C except to assert that C was a 50% solution and LISP was better. I agree though that for practical purposes, practical solutions are just going to be more successful.

It’s a signaling mechanism to say “I went to MIT” or at the very least to say “I could have gone to MIT”.

Re: The Rise of Worse Is Better (1991)

#20

I don’t get the name New Jersey approach, is it just the general association of New Jersey and poor quality? When I think of New Jersey and CS, I think of Princeton, which has a pretty good program IIRC. — Anyway, I wouldn’t put simplicity on the same level as the other things. Simplicity isn’t a virtue in and of itself, simplicity is valuable because it helps all of the other things. Simplicity helps a bit with cons…

New Jersey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs
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