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Python 3.13.0 Is Released

docs.python.org

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Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#11

Post by formerly_proven »

pansa2 wrote: post #4

Python versions 3.11, 3.12 and now 3.13 have contained far fewer additions to the language than earlier 3.x versions. Instead the newest releases have been focusing on implementation improvements - and in 3.13, the new REPL, experimental JIT & GIL-free options all sound great! The language itself is (more than) complex enough already - I hope this focus on implementation quality continues.

The last couple years also saw a stringent approach to deprecations: If something is marked as deprecated, it WILL be removed in a minor release sooner than later.

Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#12

Post by CJefferson »

Good to get advanced notice, if I read all the way down, that they will silently completely change the behavior of multiprocessing in 3.14 (only on Unix/Linux, in case other people wonder what’s going on), which is going to break a bunch of programs I work with.

I really like using Python, but I can’t keep using it when they just keep breaking things like this. Most people don’t read all the release notes.

Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#13

Post by user070223 »

causal wrote: post #5

Any rule of thumb when it comes to adopting Python releases? Is it usually best to wait for the first patch version before using in production?

When should you upgrade to Python 3.13? https://pythonspeed.com/articles/upgrade-python-3.13/

Python libraries support https://pyreadiness.org/3.13/

Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#14

Post by oebs »

causal wrote: post #5

Any rule of thumb when it comes to adopting Python releases? Is it usually best to wait for the first patch version before using in production?

We follow this rule (about two dozen services with in total ~100k loc of Python): By default, use the version 1 release below the latest.

I.e. we currently run 3.11 and will now schedule work to upgrade to 3.12, which is expected to be more or less trivial for most services.

The rationale is that some of the (direct and transitive) dependencies will take a while to be compatible with the latest release. And waiting roughly a year is both fast enough to not get too much behind, and slow enough to expect that most dependencies have caught up with the latest release.

Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#15

Post by mg »

When I'm in a docker container using the Python 3 version that comes with Debian - is there an easy way to swap it out for this version so I can test how my software behaves under 3.13?

Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#16

Post by icegreentea2 »

CJefferson wrote: post #12

Good to get advanced notice, if I read all the way down, that they will silently completely change the behavior of multiprocessing in 3.14 (only on Unix/Linux, in case other people wonder what’s going on), which is going to break a bunch of programs I work with. I really like using Python, but I can’t keep using it when they just keep breaking things like this. Most people don’t read all the release notes.

Not defending their specific course of action here, but you should probably try to wade into the linked discussion (https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/84559). Looks like the push to disable warnings (in 3.13) is mostly coming from one guy.

Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#17

Post by CJefferson »

icegreentea2 wrote: post #16
CJefferson wrote: post #12

Good to get advanced notice, if I read all the way down, that they will silently completely change the behavior of multiprocessing in 3.14 (only on Unix/Linux, in case other people wonder what’s going on), which is going to break a bunch of programs I work with. I really like using Python, but I can’t keep using it when they just keep breaking things like this. Most people don’t read all the release notes.

Not defending their specific course of action here, but you should probably try to wade into the linked discussion ( https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/84559 ). Looks like the push to disable warnings (in 3.13) is mostly coming from one guy.

I think should have a dig.

While it’s not perfect, I know a few other people people who do “set up lots of data structures, including in libraries, then make use of the fact multiprocessing uses fork to duplicate them”. While fork always has sharp edges, it’s also long been clearly documented that’s the behavior on Linux.

Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#18

Post by ebb_earl_co »

mg wrote: post #15

When I'm in a docker container using the Python 3 version that comes with Debian - is there an easy way to swap it out for this version so I can test how my software behaves under 3.13?

This[0] is the Docker Python using Debian Bookworm, so as soon as 3.13.0 (not the release candidate I've linked to) is released, there will be an image.

Otherwise, there's always the excellent `pyenv` to use, including this person's docker-pyenv project [1]

[0] https://hub.docker.com/layers/library/python/3.13.0rc3-slim-... [1] https://github.com/tzenderman/docker-pyenv?tab=readme-ov-fil...

Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#19

Post by almostgotcaught »

CJefferson wrote: post #12

Good to get advanced notice, if I read all the way down, that they will silently completely change the behavior of multiprocessing in 3.14 (only on Unix/Linux, in case other people wonder what’s going on), which is going to break a bunch of programs I work with. I really like using Python, but I can’t keep using it when they just keep breaking things like this. Most people don’t read all the release notes.

> I really like using Python, but I can’t keep using it when they just keep breaking things like this.

So much perl clutching. Just curious, since I guess you've made up your mind, what's your plan to migrate away? Or are you hoping maintainers see your comment and reconsider the road-map?

Re: Python 3.13.0 Is Released

#20

Post by csdreamer7 »

pansa2 wrote: post #4

Python versions 3.11, 3.12 and now 3.13 have contained far fewer additions to the language than earlier 3.x versions. Instead the newest releases have been focusing on implementation improvements - and in 3.13, the new REPL, experimental JIT & GIL-free options all sound great! The language itself is (more than) complex enough already - I hope this focus on implementation quality continues.

> The language itself is (more than) complex enough already - I hope this focus on implementation quality continues.

As do I.

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