Related:
Ryujinx (Nintendo Switch emulator) has been removed from GitHub
Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
11–20 of 77 posts
Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
#12I got a C&D from them 20+ years ago for hosting a ROM site. That's fair enough. I complied. But this seems ridiculous. What if they're plugging an 8-BIT NES to an adapter and into a capture card? The whole thing seems silly as I don't see it's costing them money. But it's their product they can do what they want.
> But it's their product they can do what they want. To the extent that we let them. There's no natural rights going on here, so theoretically (if you believe in democracy) we still get to decide how much power foreign companies have.
The US belongs to various international copyright conventions. The assumption is that countries will respect each others' copyrights.
And the US currently has an extremely long copyright period, life of the author + 70 years. Some (Larry Lessig and others) have argued that this violates the constitution's establishment clause for copyright, but so far the supreme court disagrees, and copyright reform also seems dead in the legislative branch. (And on the executive side, the copyright office is not sympathetic, and international treaties also impede copyright reform.)
But your thought experiment is interesting - suppose the US decides that Nintendo's copyrights no longer hold, and suppose that Japan decides that Microsoft's copyrights no longer hold? If it were only for old games and obsolete software, perhaps little would change. If it were for recent games/software, then I think it might change the incentives to localize games/software for other markets.
Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
#13I'm probably the only person on HN who sympathizes with Nintendo. I think the law should be stronger against internet piracy without hurting other freedom.
Let's be real. I'm guessing only 1% will rip the ROM off their purchased cartridge and play on an emulator. The 99% will pirate games they never purchased.
Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do they really get to do whatever they like forever with e.g. games and consoles they neither sell nor maintain anymore? The NES was discontinued in 95, that was nearly 3 decades ago. I don't think they should have the right to prevent hackers to emulate it and share their findings. Current consoles, yeah maybe, but even then the question would be why they should get a monopoly on the games developed for their platfo…
> I don't think they should have the right to prevent hackers to emulate it and share their findings They do not. Emulation is legal. However it is worth considering that: 0) NES Classic was sold as recently as 2018 1) Nintendo currently rent out NES games as part of Switch online 2) Copyright law ("lifetime" + 70 years) is on Nintendo's side for games themselves 3) Fair use can be a defense against infringement in s…
> Nintendo currently rent out NES games as part of Switch online
If Nintendo really cared about this they should create their own version of Spotify for legacy video games and charge a monthly subscription fee for the entire library that’s cross platform and mobile friendly. The strength of Nintendo really is their games, not the hardware. I don’t understand why Nintendo is so attached to their hardware in 2024, especially in the age of the Steam Deck.
Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
#15I'm probably the only person on HN who sympathizes with Nintendo. I think the law should be stronger against internet piracy without hurting other freedom. Let's be real. I'm guessing only 1% will rip the ROM off their purchased cartridge and play on an emulator. The 99% will pirate games they never purchased.
Either way your so called "piracy" helps preserve the games and keep them playable for much longer.
Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But it's their product they can do what they want. To the extent that we let them. There's no natural rights going on here, so theoretically (if you believe in democracy) we still get to decide how much power foreign companies have.
The US belongs to various international copyright conventions. The assumption is that countries will respect each others' copyrights. And the US currently has an extremely long copyright period, life of the author + 70 years. Some (Larry Lessig and others) have argued that this violates the constitution's establishment clause for copyright, but so far the supreme court disagrees, and copyright reform also seems dead…
A large part of the US economy depends on IP law, including copyright; they're not going to suddenly abandon it.
They could, however, shorten the terms to much more reasonable lengths. It wouldn't hurt the US economy to shorten copyright terms to 50 years, for instance. If they shortened them to 30 years, it would have no real effect on the software industry, though Nintendo would be pissed. I don't think Microsoft would care much about people passing around copies of MS-DOS 3.3.
Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
#17I'm probably the only person on HN who sympathizes with Nintendo. I think the law should be stronger against internet piracy without hurting other freedom. Let's be real. I'm guessing only 1% will rip the ROM off their purchased cartridge and play on an emulator. The 99% will pirate games they never purchased.
The interesting question to me is how piracy (or unlicensed downloads) affects the company. In many cases, it seems like it has little effect at all.
Are people really going to stop subscribing to Switch Online because NES ROMs are readily available for emulators?
What I think might (?) have some impact on Nintendo is downloading Switch games for execution on competing handhelds like the Steam Deck.
Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think they should have the right to prevent hackers to emulate it and share their findings They do not. Emulation is legal. However it is worth considering that: 0) NES Classic was sold as recently as 2018 1) Nintendo currently rent out NES games as part of Switch online 2) Copyright law ("lifetime" + 70 years) is on Nintendo's side for games themselves 3) Fair use can be a defense against infringement in s…
> Nintendo currently rent out NES games as part of Switch online If Nintendo really cared about this they should create their own version of Spotify for legacy video games and charge a monthly subscription fee for the entire library that’s cross platform and mobile friendly. The strength of Nintendo really is their games, not the hardware. I don’t understand why Nintendo is so attached to their hardware in 2024, espe…
> I don’t understand why Nintendo is so attached to their hardware in 2024,
Yes, you do not.
Nintendo makes a lot of money selling hardware. Switch is the third most successful game console of all time, behind the PS2 and Nintendo's own DS. Switch was always profitable vs. component and manufacturing cost, and this has largely gotten better over time with the exception of covid-related supply chain disruptions. Nintendo has no need or desire to follow in Sega's footsteps.
Switch consoles mean Nintendo can sell physical game cards. Physical media are important in Japan, and important elsewhere since they allow fully offline operation.
Moreover, Nintendo doesn't want to sacrifice its platform fees to the likes of Valve, Apple, or Google.
Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
#19Standard Nintendo behavior.
I think they’re trying to prevent people from developing hardware alternatives to Nintendo Switch, next logical step after stable emulators.
Which basically proves Nintendo has little to no moat apart from laws preventing their executables from being run elsewhere.
Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]
#20I'm probably the only person on HN who sympathizes with Nintendo. I think the law should be stronger against internet piracy without hurting other freedom. Let's be real. I'm guessing only 1% will rip the ROM off their purchased cartridge and play on an emulator. The 99% will pirate games they never purchased.
The interesting question to me is how piracy (or unlicensed downloads) affects the company. In many cases, it seems like it has little effect at all. Are people really going to stop subscribing to Switch Online because NES ROMs are readily available for emulators? What I think might (?) have some impact on Nintendo is downloading Switch games for execution on competing handhelds like the Steam Deck.
Yuzu and Ryujinx are the real threats to its business as a number of highly anticipated game titles have been leaked and pirated several days (if not weeks) before their releases. This is not acceptable for both the developers and legit purchasers. I actually suspect that the recent Zelda title leak (2 weeks before its release) was the main motivation of recent takedown of Ryujinx.