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Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

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Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#11
post #10

My car runs on methane, but it's very expensive, only 20% cheaper than gas and soon it might be 1:1. Hard to store (200 bar pressure tank) and tanks have a 20 year lifespan.

Curious. Had seen cars running on GPL (yep), but never methane. Who is the maker?

Here (Spain) you can find a bunch of CNG vehicles, although not a lot. GPL is more popular, and there is at least 2x or 3x times GPL stations than CNG stations. I think CNG is more popular for commercial drivers around the city, like taxis, vans, microbuses, and the like.

A friend has a CNG Seat Mii, that's the same as a VW Up!

Here, if you click in "Más información" on any category, you can see a list of vehicles you can buy directly to the brand ready for CNG. The site might be out of date, as the models I see there are 2 to 5 years old.

https://gasnam.es/catalogo-vehiculos-gnc-biognc-gnl-biognl/

Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#12
This article might benefit from a bit more numerical data:

    CO₂ Radiative Forcing:

        1950: Approximately 0.58 W/m² @ 310 ppm 

        2020: Approximately 2.13 W/m² @ 414 ppm


    CH₄ Radiative Forcing:

        1950: Approximately 0.25 W/m² @ 1.15 ppm

        2020: Approximately 0.59 W/m² @ 1.86 ppm
Methane in the atmosphere is oxidized to CO2 with about a 6-year halflife, so:

20-year timescale: CH₄ is approximately 84-87 times more efficient than CO₂.

100-year timescale: CH₄ is approximately 28-34 times more efficient than CO₂.

The other thing to keep in mind is the removal rate:

> "Roughly 56% of annual fossil CO₂ emissions are absorbed by natural sinks—29% by the biosphere and 23% by the oceans—while 44% remains in the atmosphere, driving global climate change. For CH₄, 90% is removed by atmospheric oxidation within roughly a decade, with a small fraction absorbed by soils."

The bottom line? If human civilization really wants to stabilize the concentration of CO2 and CH4 in the atmosphere - which ideally will lead to a stabilization of global temperature and a new climate normal (certainly warmer and wetter, much like Pliocene conditions of 2-5 mya), then elimination of fossil fuel combustion as an energy source really is the only plausible option.

Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#13

This article might benefit from a bit more numerical data: CO₂ Radiative Forcing: 1950: Approximately 0.58 W/m² @ 310 ppm 2020: Approximately 2.13 W/m² @ 414 ppm CH₄ Radiative Forcing: 1950: Approximately 0.25 W/m² @ 1.15 ppm 2020: Approximately 0.59 W/m² @ 1.86 ppm Methane in the atmosphere is oxidized to CO2 with about a 6-year halflife, so: 20-year timescale: CH₄ is approximately 84-87 times more efficient than CO…

Great info. What's the source for this data?

Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#14

Meanwhile: https://cleantechnica.com/2024/05/03/fossil-fuel-companies-b... Looks like another arms race. :-(

This is factually incorrect and has the direction of causality wrong.

Enclosed combustors are _more_ efficient than flares, and can be tested to show that they achieve complete combustion of methane (unlike flares, which do not combust all methane.) Because of this efficiency delta, enclosed combustors were introduced to adhere to new air quality regulations.

I.e. regulators forced companies to install them to improve their emissions; they aren't being installed to hide emissions.

"Enclosed flaring is, in truth, probably less efficient than a typical flare. It’s better than venting, but going from a flare to an enclosed flare or a vapor combustor is not an improvement in reducing emissions", based on vibes from a former regulator from the linked article, is incorrect. E.g. see https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266679082...

Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#15

My car runs on methane, but it's very expensive, only 20% cheaper than gas and soon it might be 1:1. Hard to store (200 bar pressure tank) and tanks have a 20 year lifespan.

Wikipedia says the burning of methane produces CO2 and water, seemingly at a 1:1 ratio between the methane and CO2 molecules (chemistry isn't my strong suit, though). CO2 is a lot better than CH4 afaik, so rather than venting it directly, this makes me wonder why we don't burn all waste methane that is currently just being vented like from these ships

Also interesting

> Compared to other hydrocarbon fuels, methane produces less carbon dioxide for each unit of heat released. [...] methane, being the simplest hydrocarbon, produces more heat per mass unit (55.7 kJ/g) than other complex hydrocarbons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane

Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#16

This article might benefit from a bit more numerical data: CO₂ Radiative Forcing: 1950: Approximately 0.58 W/m² @ 310 ppm 2020: Approximately 2.13 W/m² @ 414 ppm CH₄ Radiative Forcing: 1950: Approximately 0.25 W/m² @ 1.15 ppm 2020: Approximately 0.59 W/m² @ 1.86 ppm Methane in the atmosphere is oxidized to CO2 with about a 6-year halflife, so: 20-year timescale: CH₄ is approximately 84-87 times more efficient than CO…

> CO₂ Radiative Forcing:

That's an interesting scaling. For a ~30% increase in ppm, it's ~400% in W/m^2

Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#17

This article might benefit from a bit more numerical data: CO₂ Radiative Forcing: 1950: Approximately 0.58 W/m² @ 310 ppm 2020: Approximately 2.13 W/m² @ 414 ppm CH₄ Radiative Forcing: 1950: Approximately 0.25 W/m² @ 1.15 ppm 2020: Approximately 0.59 W/m² @ 1.86 ppm Methane in the atmosphere is oxidized to CO2 with about a 6-year halflife, so: 20-year timescale: CH₄ is approximately 84-87 times more efficient than CO…

> CO₂ Radiative Forcing: That's an interesting scaling. For a ~30% increase in ppm, it's ~400% in W/m^2

It's because of the high-altitude IR windows in the absorption spectrum as I understand it. If CO2 is added at 1 km it really has no effect there since CO2 absorption in these windows is mostly saturated already, but as you climb to higher altitudes ~12 km the lower pressures mean those windows clear up - but a relatively small increase in CO2 starts filling in these windows. The best source I've found for explaining this at the non-technical level is:

https://history.aip.org/climate/Radmath.htm#L_0165

Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#18
post #13

This article might benefit from a bit more numerical data: CO₂ Radiative Forcing: 1950: Approximately 0.58 W/m² @ 310 ppm 2020: Approximately 2.13 W/m² @ 414 ppm CH₄ Radiative Forcing: 1950: Approximately 0.25 W/m² @ 1.15 ppm 2020: Approximately 0.59 W/m² @ 1.86 ppm Methane in the atmosphere is oxidized to CO2 with about a 6-year halflife, so: 20-year timescale: CH₄ is approximately 84-87 times more efficient than CO…

Great info. What's the source for this data?

IPCC originally, filtered through ChatGPT-4o. The ChatGPT-o1 model is getting pretty good, I gave it this prompt and I didn't see any glaring errors in the output:

> "We want to calculate the total amount of energy required to extract 90,000 tons of natural gas from a gas field in North Dakota, move that gas by pipeline to a port on the Southeastern United States, liquify that natural gas to the LNG state, then ship that LNG by tanker ship with 90,000 ton capacity to its destination in a Polish port in Europe, then re-gasify that product so its end users can consume it. There are thus five stages in this process."

The estimate is that shipping & processing costs are about 17% of the total energy transported, which still gives LNG quite an advantage over coal in terms of CO2 emitted per kilowatt-hout generated, although wind/solar/storage is obviously much better on that metric, and LNG's upfront infrastructure costs are quite high.

Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great info. What's the source for this data?

IPCC originally, filtered through ChatGPT-4o. The ChatGPT-o1 model is getting pretty good, I gave it this prompt and I didn't see any glaring errors in the output: > "We want to calculate the total amount of energy required to extract 90,000 tons of natural gas from a gas field in North Dakota, move that gas by pipeline to a port on the Southeastern United States, liquify that natural gas to the LNG state, then ship…

Could you ask it to add latest estimate for leaks in methane infrastructure used along the way?

IIRC these estimates were low in IPCC reports vs where they are now.

Re: Solving methane mysteries with satellite imagery

#20

My car runs on methane, but it's very expensive, only 20% cheaper than gas and soon it might be 1:1. Hard to store (200 bar pressure tank) and tanks have a 20 year lifespan.

I’m curious why you say it is expensive if cheaper than the alternative of gasoline?
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